The link between Greek membership and social conservatism

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Scandia

My family is very conservative overall- and not fond of GLOs at all. I am a fence-sitting moderate, and I am an A Phi O brother and am pursuing AI as well.

I do not notice this in APO.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well most fraternities strive to live up to values and a set of beliefs that were established 100+ years ago, a time when American culture was conservative, so this is not at all very surprising. Also, if you look at the things that most Greeks do, (serenades, pinnings, date parties,etc) it is kind of a throw back to an older generation.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I think private social clubs are going to be more resistant to social change because of the self-selected nature of members. The present group of members looks for a new set most like them, which tends to perpetuate holding the same ideas and values over time.

There's also a principle that suggest that being in groups with people who are politically the same makes the positions of the group members more extreme than being in groups that are mixed by ideology. (It makes sense. Your constantly reinforcing rather than challenging each other, if nothing else.)

So if the same idea is true in purely social groups, the prevailing ideology of the group may perpetuate itself. Since the groups have set traditions and history, it attracts traditionalist and the cycle continues.

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

Ok, this makes sense.

Originally Posted by summer_gphib

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas. Tradition is one of the things I love the most about my sorority. It's an unchanging bond in a world of constant change.

Although I am a liberal. And I am still wearing my birkenstocks. *grin*

I'm not sure what you mean by "tradition" in this context.

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

My sorority, being local in NY, we had a variety of girls that were attracted to membership (in any greek org on campus) but primarily within our org, it was the girls, our laid back style, house, social and service functions and cheaper dues (... like 600 dollars cheaper) amongst many other reasons. Is it possible that the cheaper dues attracted liberal members? lol, i couldn't even begin to make assumptions about that, but I know it was a bonus for me.

Overall, we were primarily liberal, we had a few conservative members, but there is actually a rule in our consititution that forbade anyone from discussing politics or religion in the house (obvi we didn't always follow this, but the rule made sense and we tried to as best we could)

I think that everything that everyone has brought up are good ideas about why this is (more or less) true. I think that the throw back to older ideals and standards of behavior is responsible (amongst other things, but I'm making a generalization)
However, I'm not from the south, or the midwest (though my family is) and am very liberal (raised that way) so I can't speak of the traditions elsewhere.

p.s. very interesting topic Dionysus

Thanks.

The "no discussion of politics/religion" rule is a good idea...if people cannot be civil.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Hmmm, not really. Our values are around service, sisterhood, scholarship and social action. But as you said it is all relative, like considered conservative by whom?

Ok. While a lot of NPHC Greeks are democrats, I still think a lot of you guys are on the socially conservative side also. Why do you think that is so?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by summer_gphib

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas.

Or, perhaps, they are people who are open to embracing new ideas, but unwilling in the process to ignore or lose the wisdom of those who have gone before.

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

. . . but there is actually a rule in our consititution that forbade anyone from discussing politics or religion in the house (obvi we didn't always follow this, but the rule made sense and we tried to as best we could)

Originally Posted by Dionysus

The "no discussion of politics/religion" rule is a good idea...if people cannot be civil.

I would have been very uncomfortable with and put off by a rule like this. What kind of brotherhood could I experience in my fraternity if I was forbidden or discouraged from discussing the values -- spiritual and political -- that matter to me and that are an intrinsic part of who I am? To me this seems like a cop-out that deprives members of one of the lessons I value from my fraternity experience -- learning that I can still honestly call someone "brother" when we have different views.

[AlethiaSi]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I would have been very uncomfortable with and put off by a rule like this. What kind of brotherhood could I experience in my fraternity if I was forbidden or discouraged from discussing the values -- spiritual and political -- that matter to me and that are an intrinsic part of who I am? To me this seems like a cop-out that deprives members of one of the lessons I value from my fraternity experience -- learning that I can still honestly call someone "brother" when we have different views.

Like I said, we didn't always follow the "rule", it was more of a guideline. If it got out of hand (which it did on a few occasions, but it was mostly outsiders discussing with sisters) it was reinforcement that we should probably stay away from those topics for awhile. However, on the whole, I had really great enriching conversations with my sisters.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

Like I said, we didn't always follow the "rule", it was more of a guideline. If it got out of hand (which it did on a few occasions, but it was mostly outsiders discussing with sisters) it was reinforcement that we should probably stay away from those topics for awhile. However, on the whole, I had really great enriching conversations with my sisters.

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

[AlethiaSi]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

I agree with you, I wish it didn't have to be that way.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

As usual MysticCat is right on the nail. Why deal with the elephant in the room? If these organizations are for bettering ourselves (which I believe they are, there are certain skills I have learned from my chapter that I wouldn't have elsewhere), then I believe it's also necessary to discuss these topics and learn to be civil to one another. One thing I didn't care for during my active time was being told what to wear, what to say, where to go.
We had one republican in our chapter, whom we all adored. We had jewish girls who just wouldn't participate in the christian aspects of ritual, and who were allowed to observe their religion if it conflicted with a sorority function.

If someone told me I couldn't discuss politics or religion? Hello?! I'm a poli sci major! The only times to avoid it are during recruitment.

[TSteven]

The Spirit of Sigma Chi, as conceived by the Founders more than 150 years ago yet visible and alive today, is based on the theory that...

... Friendship among members, sharing a common belief in an ideal, ...

... and possessing different temperaments, talents, and convictions, ...

... is superior to friendship among members having the same temperaments, talents, and convictions, and that. . .

... Genuine friendship can be maintained without surrendering the principle of individuality or sacrificing one's personal judgment.

"The Spirit" is a concept that comes straight from the founders' unfortunate experience in another fraternity, which the founders saw as a group focused on conformity for political gain. The founders wanted a spirit of nonconformity in Sigma Chi. Though "The Spirit" calls for men who are inherently "different," it is expected that the members, in their differences, remain responsible, honorable, gentlemanly, friendly -- indeed all those characteristics listed in "The Jordan Standard."

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

IOk. While a lot of NPHC Greeks are democrats, I still think a lot of you guys are on the socially conservative side also. Why do you think that is so?

First off, interesting topic, Dionysus.

I think Blacks on the whole are pretty socially conservative (a tactic Black Republicans use when explaining their alliance with the GOP) when it comes to issues of homosexuality and abortion ... in general, things that "threaten" the morality of an overwhelmingly Christian upbringing.

We tend to be liberal when it comes to issues that relate to oppression and unfairness.

I think this social conservatism is reflected in the members of our organizations. NPHC organizations may swing slightly to the left, but only because their members have generally been exposed to more education and liberal thinkingthan the average population.