The link between Greek membership and social conservatism

[GeekyPenguin]

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

[summer_gphib]

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas. Tradition is one of the things I love the most about my sorority. It's an unchanging bond in a world of constant change.

Although I am a liberal. And I am still wearing my birkenstocks. *grin*

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

For what it's worth, I think the chapters to whom religious, racial, and and ethnic exclusion are their primary motivations for "conservative" people to flock to them are pretty few and far between.

I agree that the ability to exclude may have kept the groups the same over time and didn't present many social challenges to the members internally, but I don't think it explains WHY anyone joins. It's effect is secondary to the other traditions and purposes of the groups.

[Kevin]

In my experience, on the whole, members of fraternities and sororities grew up in fairly well-off families. Such families tend to raise kids with conservative values.

[AlethiaSi]

My sorority, being local in NY, we had a variety of girls that were attracted to membership (in any greek org on campus) but primarily within our org, it was the girls, our laid back style, house, social and service functions and cheaper dues (... like 600 dollars cheaper) amongst many other reasons. Is it possible that the cheaper dues attracted liberal members? lol, i couldn't even begin to make assumptions about that, but I know it was a bonus for me.

Overall, we were primarily liberal, we had a few conservative members, but there is actually a rule in our consititution that forbade anyone from discussing politics or religion in the house (obvi we didn't always follow this, but the rule made sense and we tried to as best we could)

I think that everything that everyone has brought up are good ideas about why this is (more or less) true. I think that the throw back to older ideals and standards of behavior is responsible (amongst other things, but I'm making a generalization)
However, I'm not from the south, or the midwest (though my family is) and am very liberal (raised that way) so I can't speak of the traditions elsewhere.

p.s. very interesting topic Dionysus

[RU OX Alum]

a few guys were liberal and even fewer conserveatives, mostly centrists in my chapter, and....growing excedingly tired of the lib/con polity.

[Benzgirl]

I am from a very liberal area of the Midwest, and even though some of us are the wicked "L" word, we too have traditions and values. I reminds me of the Murphy Brown/Dan Quayle debate on family values.

There are areas of the midwest that is considered Conservative, but the residents are very poor and uneducated, just as other areas are wealthy and educated. And, the South is considered Conservative whether people are Greek or not. Just look at the Red/Green maps from the last presidential election. I agree with what is said about depending on the area of the country or the house.

One the reasons I joined a sorority was the opportunity for leadership, and last I checked there were both Conservative and Liberal parties in leadership roles of the government. Another reason I joined was the ability to be an individual part of the whole. Maybe it was just my sorority, but my sisters allowed me to be me, and they didn't just accept it, they embraced it. It was a wonderful experience.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Little32

Right and I think for some just the notion of a sorority, with all that is implicit in that, seems conservative. Also, I am sure that Delta as an organization has certain expectations surrounding behaviors and activities where members are concerned that many do feel are conservative. It is a difficult conversation to have because the idea of conservatism is so broad--and I am willing to bet that we were not much of a consideration in much of the research anyway.

Originally Posted by skylark

I certainly haven't observed that NPC and IFC fraternities and sororities tend to attract more conservative people (my sorority had many liberal people, and this was in a very conservative red state). However, I do see that the fact that sororities and fraternities may attract people from higher income levels, which may make sense with the original poster's claims. One thing I would be curious about is whether there were "christian" sororities and fraternities included in the statistics. That would certainly make the statistics come out more conservative, I think. Also, are the Latino/Latina and African-American groups included? If not, this might make the statistics skewed, as well (since at least I've heard that NPC and IFC frats and sororities tend to be whiter than the average college population, unfortunately).

i havent made up my mind on the topic, but pretty much any statistical data on greeks is going to include (or exclude) the groups necessary to prove a point. then again, that's statistical research for you.

while i could turn a blind eye to such findings as it excludes anyone outside NPC/IFC/NIC, it makes sense. i would imagine any GLO outside such councils (though its obvi that NPHC has made its mark, enough that we SHOULD be included) would be excluded because they themselves WERE the excluded, and therefore being non-conservative. and if NPHC/NALFO were excluded in said study because were arent "traditional" enough to be considered, then religious/LGBT-based orgs SURELY wouldnt. i suppose we're to believe that if youre not part of the mainstream orgs (whether by choice or circumstance) , then you're probably not "conservative."

hmm,im gonna haveto comeback to this... dont know if im making much sense.

[Scandia]

Violetpretty- But stereotypes such as partying, drinking too much, not being financially responsible, and being wild in more than one aspect are applied, then this would probably lean more towards liberals. As I said before, my relatives are very conservative and very opposed to GLOs. Some due to this perceived behavior, some because they think "it's buying your friends", some because of actual bad experiences with them in practice.

[LatinaAlumna]

Originally Posted by Kevin

In my experience, on the whole, members of fraternities and sororities grew up in fairly well-off families. Such families tend to raise kids with conservative values.

You mean, families like the Hilton's? The Richies? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. )

I think it largely depends on region. I don't see many wealthy families in CA raising conservative kids.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

You mean, families like the Hilton's? The Richies? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. )

I think it largely depends on region. I don't see many wealthy families in CA raising conservative kids.

Yeah, and I know many working class people who are quite conservative. I think wealthy families are more likely to be fiscally conservative, but I'm not sure about being more socially conservative.

[sugar and spice]

IFC/NPC sororities tend to skew conservative -- I can't see how this is up for debate. (I don't know enough about the NPHC to comment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true for them also, given the argument below.) The sororities and fraternities on my campus were probably split right down the middle, but this is on a notoriously liberal campus where, on the whole, probably 80+ percent leaned left. That said, I think that Greek life tends to attract moderates more than anything. The extreme conservatives I know are just as turned off by stereotypes of Greek life they associate with liberalism (hardcore drinking and partying, promiscuity, relaxed moral standards) as the extreme liberals are with the aspects they associate with conservatism (sexism/racism, conformity, groupthink).

I do think that the adherence to tradition is the major point here. On campuses with less traditional Greek systems, I've found that you're more likely to have liberal members. On campuses with traditional Greek systems, less so. On campuses with sororities and fraternities with decades, maybe 100+ of history, tradition is a big thing. Greeks as a whole tend to be a pretty nostalgic bunch, and "it's the way we've always done things" tends to be a fairly popular defense for a whole range of decisions. Some of these choices are not particularly political -- whether or not to haze, recruitment methods, which songs to sing at rush. Others -- like the decision to allow Jews/Catholics/people of color into our organizations, gender roles, behavior standards, whether gay members will be embraced, tolerated but ignored, or not allowed at all -- clearly are, and we have always lagged behind the college population as a whole on these viewpoints because of a dogmatic adherence to tradition. Unfortunately, as the gap between the GDI population's views and the Greek population's views widened in the late 1960s/1970s, GDI tolerance for the Greek organizations decreased. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really recall there being a big focus on the political leanings of GDIs versus independents prior to, oh, 1960? The question of whether or not to go Greek mostly hinged on finances and individual preference prior to that, yes?)

Since then we've been stuck with the rep of being conservative and conformist, which turns a lot of socially liberal potential members away right off the bat. I went to a high school where nobody -- I literally mean no one -- planned on rushing when they went to college, including those that you'd most expect would go Greek. Obviously a few of us ended up doing so, but I think it's no surprise that most of us who rushed either went to schools where a large majority of the students were Greek and rush was in the second semester (they had time to be talked into it, meet Greek friends and see that the stereotypes were not true) or rushed at schools where the Greek systems were less traditional. The town that I grew up in is very socially liberal, and growing up, we had no Greek role models. It was just understood that going Greek was something that conservatives did -- people who were not us, people who valued wealth, tradition -- spoiled brats with daddy's credit cards. If you're not exposed to any other ideas than that growing up, it's rare that you'll give Greek life a second thought when you actually get to college. Which ensures that even in organizations where liberal members would be valued or at least tolerated , most liberal college students don't even get to the opening round of the rush process in the first place.