Sexual orientation and MS

[DUKyleXY]

I personally am Gay. I made the choice to come out to my chapter a few brothers at a time before I was even Pinned as a pledge. My chapter at the time had at least one man who admitted his homophobia and racism. For me, he and the other men I thought would have a hard time were the last to tell. I began with two of my closest brothers, ironically, although my family does not know, my father was in town that night. We (my brothers and I) went to Perkins and just talked about the problems I had been having with my dad that weekend, and eventually I let them know. From there I just pulled guys aside one or two at a time. I didn't need to tell a few who had already guessed as much, but they were glad I had told them. When it came to the homophobes, I was apprehensive, I did it one at a time with another brother there to support me. In the end it all turned out fine. I have obviously initiated and am well on my way to high positions in the chapter.

However, when it came around to summer recruitment seminars this past spring, my orientation was brought up nonchalantly. A few of the men expressed concerns that there would be potentials who would not want to join a house with a gay man in residence. Let alone room with one. This was a bit unnerving, however, I understood their point of view. We are at a school in the middle of Iowa. Everything turned out ok again!

So really, gay in fraternity MS should not be much of an issue. It all comes back to campus lifestyles and trends.

[mystikchick]

I'm intrigued that there are more fraternities listed on that list than there are sororities. I'm also really heartened that many of those fraternities have resources on how to react when a brother comes out to you, that's a great idea and a great way to increase sensitivity and tolerance while processing what for many is often difficult news to handle.

My brother has two brothers that are openly gay and I believe one that is bisexual. This did prove to be somewhat of an issue during their last recruitment as three of their nine pledges expressed discomfort over being brothers with openly gay men but got over themselves, and one turned his pledge pin in over the matter (but later wound up getting a bid and initiating in any case). How that situation has turned out, I'm not sure yet because this was at the end of last spring and school hasn't begun yet for this year, but I'm hoping that it doesn't get in the way of the chapter's unity (they're a small chapter and this latest pledge class essentially saved the chapter from near extinction).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by mystikchick

I'm intrigued that there are more fraternities listed on that list than there are sororities.

This is a giant generalization, but I think the women in positions of power in sororities are more likely to have a very conservative bent than the men in those same positions in fraternities.

[andrea981]

I agree with 33. I remember I was at a convention for my NPC org and a progressive girl from an Oregon chapter introduced a bill from the floor to change the bylaws to include sexual orientation in the sorority's already existing anti-discrimination laws. There were little old ladies that actually gasped -- no joke. In our sorority the alum chapters each have a vote equal to the active chapters, but because there are about 50% more alum chapters, that kind of keeps the sorority locked in the past a little more.

If it was up to actives only -- I'm sure that girl's bill (or motion) would have passed.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I don't know what our clause says, but we have no gays in our chapter: and we're doing just fine.

That you know of.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

That you know of.

Exactly.

Even groups with no anti-discrimination policies who have no "out to the group" members are likely to have had gay or lesbian members in the past and maybe in the present.

But I don't know how effective anti-discrimination clauses are anyway because the actual membership standards used to assemble a particular new members class are often so subjective as to be inarticulable. No matter what the national standards are, I think all of them rely to some degree on the interaction between PNMs and current members, and awareness of a pnms sexual orientation, if it makes the present member uncomfortable, is likely to make him or her think the pnm's "fit" for the organization isn't right.

I'm not defending this practice, and I believe that members of an organization with anti-discrimination clauses should always internally check themselves to make sure that it's not their own prejudice creeping in, but expecting all undergraduate members to carefully evaluate themselves about one particular PNM in a recruitment with a ton of pnms might be asking more than it seems at first.

In a COB situation or with NPHC intake, you really might be considering a person as an individual on a deep individual level. In a big formal recruitment, not so much.

[LoggerTheta]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

That you know of.

Exactly. I can't really relate because I go to a VERY liberal school in Western Washington (we were one of two small private colleges on The Advocate's list of top 20 schools for the support of LGBT students. (The other was Oberlin) and I am an active member of BGLAD (Bisexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Allies for Diversity.) However, I can DEFINITELY understand how a member of a greek organization in a politically conservative area of the country would much rather stay in the closet then face the ridicule that would invariablly occur, which is tragic in my opinion. Especially because sorority sisters/fraternity brothers should support each other unequivocally.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by LoggerTheta

Exactly. I can't really relate because I go to a VERY liberal school in Western Washington (we were one of two small private colleges on The Advocate's list of top 20 schools for the support of LGBT students. (The other was Oberlin) and I am an active member of BGLAD (Bisexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Allies for Diversity.) However, I can DEFINITELY understand how a member of a greek organization in a politically conservative area of the country would much rather stay in the closet then face the ridicule that would invariablly occur, which is tragic in my opinion. Especially because sorority sisters/fraternity brothers should support each other unequivocally.

Agreed. My big is a lesbian and my new member educator is also. Our chapter readily accepted this as fact and we even talked about relationship stuff with them like we would if we had boy issues. My big would bring her partner to date parties, formals etc. She was also chapter president and one of the greatest women I know.

It makes me so sad to know that you can stay in the closet, everyone will love you for you but that the one small detail of liking the same sex is enough to turn people off. Apparently we have no sexual orientation clause in our bylaws but I would hope that my sisters all over the country would know better than to turn someone down who would make a fabulous sister just because she's gay.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Progress for the sake of progress is an unfortunate idea.

I don't know what our clause says, but we have no gays in our chapter: and we're doing just fine.

I know of no HQ or IHQ that is saying that you have to take gay members. The nondiscriminatory clauses just mean that ideally, being gay should not be a factor for or against a member or PNM. That being said, there are chapters that would hold it against someone and some that will not.

And, go right ahead believing that there are no gay members in your chapter. There are. They aren't out publicly because either they aren't ready to be out, or they think that they just "Haven't met the right girl yet", or they know that many members of your chapter will not be accepting. You may even have a member or two who are out privately to a couple of the other members that they trust. It happens.

ETA: Sorry, the bold emphasis would not turn off. I tried. I really tried.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

I know of no HQ or IHQ that is saying that you have to take gay members. The nondiscriminatory clauses just mean that ideally, being gay should not be a factor for or against a member or PNM. That being said, there are chapters that would hold it against someone and some that will not.

And, go right ahead believing that there are no gay members in your chapter. There are. They aren't out publicly because either they aren't ready to be out, or they think that they just "Haven't met the right girl yet", or they know that many members of your chapter will not be accepting. You may even have a member or two who are out privately to a couple of the other members that they trust. It happens.

ETA: Sorry, the bold emphasis would not turn off. I tried. I really tried.

I get what you are saying, but come on. How do you know "there are" gays in his chapter? That's ridiculous. If you told me that to my face.......I'd argue with you to no end. I mean, are you not practically saying there are gay men in every chapter that none of us "know about yet"? I may be stereotyping and just going off common traits......but I don't find it that difficult to spot a gay man or a guy that is extremely confused with his sexuality. To me, they stick out like a sore thumb.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I get what you are saying, but come on. How do you know "there are" gays in his chapter? That's ridiculous. If you told me that to my face.......I'd argue with you to no end. I mean, are you not practically saying there are gay men in every chapter that none of us "know about yet"? I may be stereotyping and just going off common traits......but I don't find it that difficult to spot a gay man or a guy that is extremely confused with his sexuality. To me, they stick out like a sore thumb.

And then there are guys who aren't confused at all and just don't want or need for you to know.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I get what you are saying, but come on. How do you know "there are" gays in his chapter? That's ridiculous. If you told me that to my face.......I'd argue with you to no end. I mean, are you not practically saying there are gay men in every chapter that none of us "know about yet"? I may be stereotyping and just going off common traits......but I don't find it that difficult to spot a gay man or a guy that is extremely confused with his sexuality. To me, they stick out like a sore thumb.

You're back! I'm so glad, I missed you!

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DUKyleXY

I personally am Gay.

And here I thought I was the only one.

I hope you don't try to take any of my shine as the resident gay black hottie. Watch yourself, okay?

lol

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

And here I thought I was the only one.

I hope you don't try to take any of my shine as the resident gay black hottie. Watch yourself, okay?

lol

Do we need to bump up the "Ships on GC thread for y'all?

[Buttonz]

I don't know if SDT has an offical policy on it, but my chapter never had an issue with it and have several lesbian or bi sisters.

I can think of at least two fraternities, one at my first school and one at my second that have gay members and never had a problem with it. When one of my friends (second school) wanted to rush he came up to me and asked me about it because he was afraid that they would look down on him because of it (it wasn't hard to tell that he was gay). He wound up with his choice of two great groups and is very happy where is is!