Vick indicted in dog fighting case

[SoEnchanting]

Originally Posted by angelic1

I think some people may need to realize though that this is a lot more prevalent than what you think... that does not mean it should be accepted though.

Dog fighting for many in urban, high crime rate areas and even rural areas is something that they have grown up around. Something that at an early age they saw and began to accept. I think Chicago has some of the highest numbers in the reports.

So when I hear comments from other players on tv about dog fighting being seen as almost normal while it might seem odd to some. Others take it as almost this sub culture and it appears that many players in the NFL participate in it.

In more rural area these fights usually take place at night in areas hidden and not really spoken about. The same goes for cock fighting around here (which I find more common where I am from). In more urban areas they are usually on back streets. So it usually pretty hard for law enforcement to get warrents and find enough evidence to convict someone on dog fighting (most times they are just charged with animal cruelty).

I think that due to his big name that they are going to make an example of him to show that this should not be tolerated...

I agree with this statement. I know it went on where I am from, so I understand how some people may not think of it as the brutal activity it really is.

BUT just because something goes on still doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by Rudey

Dogs are about genetic manipulation and breeding. These dogs were bred to fight and kill. What don't you understand? Race is about stereotypes.

Unless you're equating non-whites to dogs now and also believe that one race is genetically superior? I wouldn't put it past you. You're not a thinker.

-Rudey

Rudey for some reason I find your ignorance irritating (instead of the usual entertaining commentary around here). Neither one of my dogs were bred to fight and kill, and neither were the puppies of my friends who have pit bulls. Stop believing everything you see on the 10 o'clock news - all pit bulls are not violent or mean. Hell, your aunt Martha's chihuaua is probably more vicious than my dog. Unfortunately, pits are bigger and stronger than your average dog, and so they are more appealing to some really awful people. That is what creates tragic situations like this Vick case - violent and irresponsible owners.

Stop stereotyping the breed, because the "Pits are violent, murderous animals" thing is simply not true. Some are, but not all.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by SoEnchanting

Rudey for some reason I find your ignorance irritating (instead of the usual entertaining commentary around here). Neither one of my dogs were bred to fight and kill, and neither were the puppies of my friends who have pit bulls. Stop believing everything you see on the 10 o'clock news - all pit bulls are not violent or mean. Hell, your aunt Martha's chihuaua is probably more vicious than my dog. Unfortunately, pits are bigger and stronger than your average dog, and so they are more appealing to some really awful people. That is what creates tragic situations like this Vick case - violent and irresponsible owners.

Stop stereotyping the breed, because the "Pits are violent, murderous animals" thing is simply not true. Some are, but not all.

It's fine if you find it irritating. The fact of the matter is that people don't realize that genetic manipulation has been most prevalent in dog breeding. Forget about vegetables and human babies. Dogs have been bred to achieve certain traits, irregardless of how it affects society or their own health (ie some dogs have severe health problems and shorter lives but look a certain way for their owners).

Is that the truth? Yes. Is it irritating? I don't care.

Now there is absolutely no reason to breed a dog to be able to attack and kill better. You can have that same love for a dog regardless of the breed. Am I wrong here or are you just irritated because you own one? Whether or not humans use them to fight has no relevance because if they used a smaller dog to fight, it would cause a lot less damage. It's the same principal - we don't put automatic machine guns in the hands of felons knowingly and think it's OK.

-Rudey

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Rudey

The fact of the matter is that people don't realize that [size-4]genetic manipulation[/size] has been most prevalent in dog breeding. Forget about vegetables and human babies. Dogs have been bred to achieve certain traits, irregardless of how it affects society or their own health (ie some dogs have severe health problems and shorter lives but look a certain way for their owners).

Is that the truth? Yes. Is it irritating? I don't care.

Now there is absolutely no reason to breed a dog to be able to attack and kill better. You can have that same love for a dog regardless of the breed. it's OK.

-Rudey

So what are WE all calling genetic manipulation? Series of brother sister matings somewhat like Mendel's "flowering pea pods"? Or are we talking insertion of DNA or shRNA or stablized microRNA fragments into the zygote/blastocyst stage to make transgenics or knockout dogs? Cloning dogs has not been proven to be overly difficult, some breeds, like Beagles are easy. Maybe pitbulls are similar? I don't know?

But, I would not want to make transgenic pitbulls with anything added to them. A safer way to genetically modify them is injecting them with a disabled virus with an over-expression casette.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

So what are WE all calling genetic manipulation? Series of brother sister matings somewhat like Mendel's "flowering pea pods"? Or are we talking insertion of DNA or shRNA or stablized microRNA fragments into the zygote/blastocyst stage to make transgenics or knockout dogs? Cloning dogs has not been proven to be overly difficult, some breeds, like Beagles are easy. Maybe pitbulls are similar? I don't know?

But, I would not want to make transgenic pitbulls with anything added to them. A safer way to genetically modify them is injecting them with a disabled virus with an over-expression casette.

Whether it's done under a microscope or supervised mating, it's still manipulation. Here is an article from the NYTimes about genetic manipulation on dogs as well as a bunch of other material it quotes:

"Free of most of the ethical concerns — and practical difficulties — associated with the practice of eugenics in humans, dog breeders are seizing on new genetic research to exert dominion over the canine gene pool. Companies with names like Vetgen and Healthgene have begun offering dozens of DNA tests to tailor the way dogs look, improve their health and, perhaps soon, enhance their athletic performance."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/science/12dog.html
http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...l.pgen.0030079
http://www.dogdna.org/
http://research.nhgri.nih.gov/dog_genome/
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...t/316/5821/112
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0506940103v1
http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../full/esm018v1
vetgen.com
genmarkag.com
healthgene.com

-Rudey
--There is nothing natural about creating Franken-dogs.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Whether it's done under a microscope or supervised mating, it's still manipulation. Here is an article from the NYTimes about genetic manipulation on dogs as well as a bunch of other material it quotes:

"Free of most of the ethical concerns — and practical difficulties — associated with the practice of eugenics in humans, dog breeders are seizing on new genetic research to exert dominion over the canine gene pool. Companies with names like Vetgen and Healthgene have begun offering dozens of DNA tests to tailor the way dogs look, improve their health and, perhaps soon, enhance their athletic performance."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/science/12dog.html
http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...l.pgen.0030079
http://www.dogdna.org/
http://research.nhgri.nih.gov/dog_genome/
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...t/316/5821/112
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0506940103v1
http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../full/esm018v1
vetgen.com
genmarkag.com
healthgene.com

-Rudey
--There is nothing natural about creating Franken-dogs.

Well, out of the "respectable" articles I see what you have up here most are examining gentoypes and phenotypes of the changes that can be "ferreted" out and optimized.

We are not quite YET at the blastocyst injection stage to make full fledge frankens. Like dino coming out of snoopy--not yet. It is a matter of time, if we can pass PETA. But folks want their world class dog for competitions.

I would say 5-10 years we will have Governator's Arnold S "re-pet". Fully, without immune incompetence due to genomic or epigenetic instability.

If folks have a problem, Here is what we are discussing:



The animals on the far right have the genetic mutation.