"The Dreaded Phone Call"

[seraphimsprite]

I understand the concerns about PNM privacy that some have raised, but the thing is, once a PNM is released, I would expect most of our organizations are going to be far more concerned about the relationship with their own alumna than the released PNM.

The phone calls are a way for our organizations to maintain relationships with and show respect for our alumnae. Making a courtesy call doesn't mean we're letting our alums "control" or influence membership selection - the decisions have already been made - but it seems only the polite thing to do to let one of our sisters know that we've released their daughter/relative.

I made quite a few of these calls as a Recruitment Supervisor and I have to say, I've never had an alum try to press me into revealing membership selection details. In fact most of the calls I've made were met with a simple "all right, thanks for letting me know" and the few who've asked "why?" accepted a response along the lines of "it was the chapter's decision, can't reveal MS conversations, etc etc" And I generally waited until the next afternoon to make the calls anyway - I'm not going to wake an alum up in the middle of the night for one thing. But I also didn't feel the need to "beat" the PNM to telling the alum - sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't. The important thing in my mind was that the call was made at all.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by seraphimsprite

"it was the chapter's decision, can't reveal MS conversations, etc etc"

We never had a legacy go through, so I don't know the official rules, etc, but it seems to me, since you're talking to an initiated sister about official business, that "MS" line is BS.

[seraphimsprite]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

We never had a legacy go through, so I don't know the official rules, etc, but it seems to me, since you're talking to an initiated sister about official business, that "MS" line is BS.

It's really not though. Maybe it's different in your organization, but in my experience MS discussions are supposed to remain in the room. It's a little different than official business from an ordinary chapter meeting, IMO. If all initiated sisters had a right to know MS conversations, then would we start telling members that they were towards the bottom of our bid list once we initiated them? Or any discussion that might have been had about a member?

[SWTXBelle]

And don't forget - you are not just discussing any random ms business, you would be telling a grandmother/mother/aunt/sister why her legacy was cut. Thus, it is fraught with more potential to hurt the member's feelings.
(Still like our policy - but I would expect one of those cards I referenced earlier!)

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by seraphimsprite

It's really not though. Maybe it's different in your organization, but in my experience MS discussions are supposed to remain in the room. It's a little different than official business from an ordinary chapter meeting, IMO. If all initiated sisters had a right to know MS conversations, then would we start telling members that they were towards the bottom of our bid list once we initiated them? Or any discussion that might have been had about a member?

You're absolutely right. From the years I've gone through recruitment as an active AND as an alum & adviser, conversations that went on during MS do not leave the room. Sister or not, if she's NOT in the room when the conversation took place, it is not her business to know what was discussed.

This is the way SK does it. Perhaps other orgs do it differently. To say it's BS is just ignorant b/c AF, you're NOT a member of SK so you don't know what goes on during Sigma Kappa MS.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by LadyAquarius

You're absolutely right. From the years I've gone through recruitment as an active AND as an alum & adviser, conversations that went on during MS do not leave the room. Sister or not, if she's NOT in the room when the conversation took place, it is not her business to know what was discussed.

This is the way SK does it. Perhaps other orgs do it differently. To say it's BS is just ignorant b/c AF, you're NOT a member of SK so you don't know what goes on during Sigma Kappa MS.

So you wouldn't be allowed to tell a mom who was a member that her daughter had been cut at all or you wouldn't be allowed to tell her was the MS discussion was about?

My memories of MS and most rules for my group are very out of date if they were ever accurate, but to me they're two different issues.

MS discussion is almost like it should never be spoken of again with anyone, but party lists once set seem like they are something else. It's a yes or no kind of thing, and it will be pretty public once the pnms pick up their invites or attend the parties. You are just (maybe) giving the alumna member a heads up as far as timing.

You wouldn't want members blabbing the info to random people because it would be bad manners, counterproductive, and invite a discussion that did breach MS, but the alumna member isn't a random person.

ETA: I'm just saying this as my opinion generally. I'm not trying to say what I think anyone's real policies are.

[BetteDavisEyes]

We would of course contact the alumna, mother, sister, aunt, etc. We would call her, explain to her that the PNM was cut and let her know that it was the chapters decision. We would NOT tell her any specific reasons like the PNM was rude, hostile, didn't fit in, etc. There's no need to give any specifics like that though I do understand that most alums would want to know. Sadly, too many of them forget that the reasoning behind the cuts are the chapters prerogatives and not the advisers yet we are the ones that bare the burden of informing them.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

We never had a legacy go through, so I don't know the official rules, etc, but it seems to me, since you're talking to an initiated sister about official business, that "MS" line is BS.

MS stays in the room. If someone didn't/couldn't attend MS or left the room because a certain PNM was being discussed that was NOT supposed to be shared with them even though they were initiated sisters and members of the chapter. Did they get told? Almost certainly. Does this mean you have to tell Suzie Alumna why her daughter would get cut? No.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Does this mean you have to tell Suzie Alumna why her daughter would get cut? No.

Unless your sorority has a RULE that you have to do so. In which case, I don't think an individual chapter gets to decide that they're above policy.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Unless your sorority has a RULE that you have to do so. In which case, I don't think an individual chapter gets to decide that they're above policy.

And the advantage of such a specific rules is that you'd hope the chapter would make sure they had a "good" reason, I guess.

Is that right, DGDramaDawg?

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

And the advantage of such a specific rules is that you'd hope the chapter would make sure they had a "good" reason, I guess.

Is that right, DGDramaDawg?

I would guess that some chapters might be less likely to cut a girl if they knew they'd have to make that phone call. Then again, this goes back to the fact that the chapter isn't under obligation to tell the alum WHY (at least, I don't know of any sororities that have policies that require chapters to release that information, but maybe I'm wrong?)... so reasoning behind cuts wouldn't need to be any better or worse, so to speak, than if the rushee was not a legacy and they didn't have to make "the call."

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I would guess that some chapters might be less likely to cut a girl if they knew they'd have to make that phone call. Then again, this goes back to the fact that the chapter isn't under obligation to tell the alum WHY (at least, I don't know of any sororities that have policies that require chapters to release that information, but maybe I'm wrong?)... so reasoning behind cuts wouldn't need to be any better or worse, so to speak, than if the rushee was not a legacy and they didn't have to make "the call."

Oh, I misunderstood your early post. I thought there were groups who had to say why as per their policy.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by seraphimsprite

I made quite a few of these calls as a Recruitment Supervisor and I have to say, I've never had an alum try to press me into revealing membership selection details. In fact most of the calls I've made were met with a simple "all right, thanks for letting me know" and the few who've asked "why?" accepted a response along the lines of "it was the chapter's decision, can't reveal MS conversations, etc etc"

Then you are very, very lucky. I have been a recruitment advisor for a few years and every single alumna I have called has wanted to know why their legacy was released and, in my experience, they do not take the standard answer. However, I have no problem sharing the "real" reason they are released, in a PC manner, of course.

[seraphimsprite]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

Then you are very, very lucky.

Oh, I realize that. My point isn't to say that all alums are accepting of the call and never get pushy, I was just trying to counter the "it will be the very rare phone call that Mom says, 'OKTHXBYE.'" comment because it does happen, at least in my own experience.

[UGAalum94]

As I'm always so eager to point out no matter what the topic, some people (usually a very small percentage) are just nuts, and they aren't going to act right no matter what you do.

I suspect the vast majority of women called, although they may ask why, accept the response with dignity and good manners.

The ones who are going to pitch a fit are probably going to pitch it anyway; it's just a question of who initiates the call and how high up the organization chain they try to go.

(I don't expect any craziness ever to change the results of the chapter's decision, but I'm afraid there are always going to be a few wacky people who try to influence outcomes. We shouldn't let those jerks cause us to abandon a policy if it's a good one for other reasons.)