Hazing dilemma...

[AGDee]

I agree with adpiucf that it doesn't have to be quite that black and white. Education and extra support can go a long way in turning an otherwise strong chapter around with regards to hazing attitudes. Some of that depends too on how serious the infractions are though and how widespread and ingrained the problematic behaviors are. Just saying "Don't do that anymore" also isn't enough though. You have to actually teach them how to do it differently because they really don't know. Sometimes you can find ways to turn a tradition gone wrong back into something positive with a few changes so the basic idea is the same but the way it is implemented is more safe. It's also more difficult if the general campus culture encourages it. I have definitely heard "But the other chapters are WORSE" as a defense and that doesn't cut it.

[Hayden Fox]

I think it should be left up more to each individual chapter. I don't think some 50 year old man from 1000 miles away should decide what I can and can not do, and I'm not just talking about hazing or anything like that. I'm talking about dry houses, too. Why should a 21 yr old not be able to drink a beer at his house if he wants to? I don't break a lot of rules, but some of the rules made by Nationals are stupid.

Originally Posted by Hayden Fox

I don't think some 50 year old man from 1000 miles away should decide what I can and can not do...

Then why'd you join your fraternity in the first place?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by OTW

Then why'd you join your fraternity in the first place?

I don't think that has anything remotely close to do with reasons for joining a fraternity. I joined SAE at Texas because my father and grandfather pledged SAE, I liked the guys, it has a great house, and has a strong reputation on campus. Taking into account the rules and regulations made up by a bunch of guys in Illinois didn't really figure into my equation.

I disagree with a ton of new things that are IHQ has proposed........it doesn't mean that my reasoning for joining my particular fraternity should be questioned.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Hayden Fox

I think it should be left up more to each individual chapter. I don't think some 50 year old man from 1000 miles away should decide what I can and can not do, and I'm not just talking about hazing or anything like that. I'm talking about dry houses, too. Why should a 21 yr old not be able to drink a beer at his house if he wants to? I don't break a lot of rules, but some of the rules made by Nationals are stupid.

Why not join a local/take your chapter local?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why not join a local/take your chapter local?

Trust me Kevin, if it was this easy, it would be done quite often at schools like mine.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Trust me Kevin, if it was this easy, it would be done quite often at schools like mine.

Yeah, just look at the wildly successful "Nu Society" of Vanderbilt.

[tallgreekalum]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yeah, just look at the wildly successful "Nu Society" of Vanderbilt.

I've had significant contact with them and they seem to be doing fairly well.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

I've had significant contact with them and they seem to be doing fairly well.

The "Nu Society" might be doing well. But not well enough to keep Sigma Nu from coming back. I mean this with all due respect to the society, but Sigma Nu is, and will be, bigger (on so many levels) at Vanderbilt than the society can ever hope to be. Their history, their tradition, their alumni etc.

As such, the "Nu Society" is a good example of why I don't feel many SEC (and or other Southern) chapters will withdraw from their fraternity. Especially when they are viewed as being a prominent fraternity on campus.

Frankly, the powerful, wealthy, and influential alumni are still Sigma Nus. Vandy Sigma Nus. The alumni have a long history and are respected for being Nus on the Vandy campus. As such, I would guess many of them have had a part in bringing their chapter back to Vanderbilt. So for example, when Homecoming comes around, Sigma Nu alumni will go to the Sigma Nu house to hang out and party. When a Vandy Sigma Nu alumnus is asked to open his check book to help *his chapter*, the name is going to be the Vandy Sigma Nu chapter and not some society that he doesn't have any ties with at all.

And the actives and alumni of other SEC and Southern chapters (of any fraternity) know and understand this as well. If not, we would have seen a heck of a lot of SEC and/or Southern chapters leaving years back. Not just a random few.

Another reason I don't see a concern on SEC campuses would be with the actives. Again as an example, I'd love to see some "Nu Society" guys go to the Sigma Nu house at Ole Miss, at Kentucky or at Bama and say "Hey, we are here for the football game tomorrow. We *use to be* Sigma Nu, but we aren't anymore. Can y'all put us up for the night?" My point is that when a chapter removes itself from the general fraternity, they no longer receive the benefits. Like being a part of a brotherhood that extends beyond the campus, and throughout the rest of the South and into the rest of the county. And the instant respect that can go with that.

And for what it is worth, the same may be said with the "Phi Society" and Phi Delta Theta at Virginia.

[ChildoftheHorn]

I think this is pretty funny because at a lot of the houses here....they still drink even if they are dry!

Basically, they just drink on certain occasions or when they have guests (parties). The whole things is that some places care about the enforcement of the rules while others do not. Big parties will probably aways remain dry, but the floor parties will not. Sorry to dissappoint guys.

The thing is that they need to be responsible. There are sororities that break the rules about it too, but they have more of a partying house and are not as many.

In the end, people just need to be responsible.

[tallgreekalum]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why not join a local/take your chapter local?

Ahh! There's the question