Lawmakers Find $21 a Week Doesn't Buy a Lot of Groceries

[susan314]

Originally Posted by Kevin

We ought not spend our hard earned money on folks who did not earn money in their lifetimes. Those people are wastes of oxygen in my opinion. I'll bet if we quit giving them $21/week in food stamps, they'd get jobs... or they'd die.

With all the suffering in the world, someone kicking off because they were too lazy to do the sort of work Americans won't do doesn't bother me so much.

Wow. Just wow.

Kevin, there have been a few points that I haven't completely disagreed with you on, but this is just shocking to me.

Most senior citizens did work hard in their lifetimes. In fact, many of them worked harder than any of us ever will. The world has changed greatly, in ways that people may never have been able to anticipate back then.

Yes, we in modern times know not to trust/rely on a company sponsored pension and social security...because we've seen so many seniors get the rug pulled right out from under them. But 50 years ago, that was not the common mindset. People back then assumed that if they provided a lifetime of loyalty and hard work to an employer, then they would be taken care of in retirement. Unfortunately, now they've seen benefits and pensions get slashed at the same time cost of living has skyrocketed.

I agree that if a person has been lazy their whole life and never contributed to society, then maybe we shouldn't have to worry about holding him/her up now. But I don't think those people are anywhere close to the majority of senior citizens on food stamps. That generation knew how to work...hard. And we've all benefited from the fruits of their labor. The idea that you think these people should just hurry up and die absolutely horrifies me.

[DeltAlum]

With a slightly different situation to the original discussion, I would simply point out that some people (like our middle child -- a daughter now 27 years old) do make some very bad decisions, some (as they grow up) realize that and honestly try to realign their lives.

It isn't easy. Bad habits (drugs in her case) died hard, and trying to right problems like her credit is a long and difficult process. Bouncing back from a bad marriage, especially when a child is involved is painful -- especially when the father lends little or no support.

Do we punish those people for the rest of their lives for mistakes made when they were young and stupid?

I should say that our daughter has never taken a cent of entitlement money (we've had to help her -- a lot) but, seeing the situation, I would not have disapproved if she had.

She has been "sober" now for six or seven years, but is still struggling financially -- even though she has always had a job and works hard in her profession, although that was not always the case.

So, again, do we throw these people and their children away because of mistakes in the past?

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

With a slightly different situation to the original discussion, I would simply point out that some people (like our middle child -- a daughter now 27 years old) do make some very bad decisions, some (as they grow up) realize that and honestly try to realign their lives.

It isn't easy. Bad habits (drugs in her case) died hard, and trying to right problems like her credit is a long and difficult process. Bouncing back from a bad marriage, especially when a child is involved is painful -- especially when the father lends little or no support.

Do we punish those people for the rest of their lives for mistakes made when they were young and stupid?

I should say that our daughter has never taken a cent of entitlement money (we've had to help her -- a lot) but, seeing the situation, I would not have disapproved if she had.

She has been "sober" now for six or seven years, but is still struggling financially -- even though she has always had a job and works hard in her profession, although that was not always the case.

So, again, do we throw these people and their children away because of mistakes in the past?

I agree that many people (myself included) made bad choices in their youths. HOWEVER, I had to grow up, correct my mistakes (in my case, post-college credit card debt) and work double-time to make things right. My parents refused, and rightfully so, to help me out of the mess I made of my finances. I did not ask for, nor did I receive assistance in paying off my debt. I worked 2, sometimes 3 jobs, lived frugally and managed to pay it off in 3 years.

It wasn't easy and sometimes I was angry with my parents for not helping me, or jealous of my friends who didn't have to spend 1/2 their salaries fixing stupid mistakes. But I learned a lesson.....THEY WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING MY LIFE. That's my job. Period.

No, you shouldn't pay for youthful mistakes your whole life. You should make it right and get in gear. I am sorry for your daughter's woes, but only she can put her life back together and move on. I thank my parents for teaching me that lesson the hard way.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by susan314

Wow. Just wow.

Kevin, there have been a few points that I haven't completely disagreed with you on, but this is just shocking to me.

Most senior citizens did work hard in their lifetimes. In fact, many of them worked harder than any of us ever will. The world has changed greatly, in ways that people may never have been able to anticipate back then.

Civilized society should provide the necessities for those who cannot provide for themselves. As for those who simply don't want to provide for themselves, I think society owes them nothing.

Now, the elderly, in most cases cannot work. Therefore, I have no problem with providing help. My argument really doesn't reach them.

Yes, we in modern times know not to trust/rely on a company sponsored pension and social security...because we've seen so many seniors get the rug pulled right out from under them. But 50 years ago, that was not the common mindset. People back then assumed that if they provided a lifetime of loyalty and hard work to an employer, then they would be taken care of in retirement. Unfortunately, now they've seen benefits and pensions get slashed at the same time cost of living has skyrocketed.

That is unfortuante. As I said though, I'm happy to have a little bit of my income redistributed to those who for whatever reason have no ability to provide for themselves -- especially when their situation is no fault of their own.

I agree that if a person has been lazy their whole life and never contributed to society, then maybe we shouldn't have to worry about holding him/her up now. But I don't think those people are anywhere close to the majority of senior citizens on food stamps. That generation knew how to work...hard. And we've all benefited from the fruits of their labor. The idea that you think these people should just hurry up and die absolutely horrifies me.

I think you're mistaken as to my meaning. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Hope this helps.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Civilized society should provide the necessities for those who cannot provide for themselves. As for those who simply don't want to provide for themselves, I think society owes them nothing.

Now, the elderly, in most cases cannot work. Therefore, I have no problem with providing help. My argument really doesn't reach them.



That is unfortuante. As I said though, I'm happy to have a little bit of my income redistributed to those who for whatever reason have no ability to provide for themselves -- especially when their situation is no fault of their own.



I think you're mistaken as to my meaning. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Hope this helps.

That makes a little more sense. (Not that I completely agree with all the points you've been trying to make in this thread, but you've at least clarified the post I had referenced.)

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Now, the elderly, in most cases cannot work. Therefore, I have no problem with providing help. My argument really doesn't reach them.

You should re-read your response on page 1. You specifically did mention the elderly.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

It's interesting how people's opinions on topics like these are shaped by their own life experiences. Those who've been there and gotten themselves out of it vs those who've had things handed to them by their parents and other people they know.

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

It's interesting how people's opinions on topics like these are shaped by their own life experiences. Those who've been there and gotten themselves out of it vs those who've had things handed to them by their parents and other people they know.

ITA. I wouldn't have posted the first word on this subject if I had a free ride from mommy and daddy. If that is your situation, great for you. You should appreciate it. I don't put anyone down for that. I wish mine had helped me more.

But I have worked my butt off and paid for my own education (and post-grad debt) and I know whereof I speak. I knew I had to do it, I made calls, asked questions, filled out paperwork. I can't understand why anyone would think someone else owes them that. That a load.