"Why Did You Decide to Join ...That?"

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

This topic has been discussed on GC ad nauseum (?sp) to the point that the threads got locked and deleted. It can become a very hot topic on GC for the very reason that it does appear that people starting these new BGLOs do so simply because they were either rejected from their D9 of choice or they became disillusioned with the D9 they joined. I have no problem with people wanting to start a new BGLO or any GLO for that matter. My Founders did it along with the others in the D9, NPC, IFC and NIC. It's just that when these new ones copy the established ones so blatantly, then these new guys do seem suspect. If you don't want to be me, then don't copy me.


DaemondSeid - just do a search for Pi Kappa Alpha at Howard U. I think you might find some of the reasons you are looking for.

Diva...I have been in for 13 years....the only reason why I brought this topic up is that I am seeing more and more new orgs popping up than there was when I first crossed way back when and now that I am seeing lots and lots of these new orgs, I am curious about their perspectives for doing something against the grain

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Diva...I have been in for 13 years....the only reason why I brought this topic up is that I am seeing more and more new orgs popping up than there was when I first crossed way back when and now that I am seeing lots and lots of these new orgs, I am curious about their perspectives for doing something against the grain

Like I said, the two most common reasons seem to be they were either rejected from their D9 of choice or they were disillusioned with the D9 they joined. Fine. But, if you (the general you) are going to be all with the D9 for what ever reason, then don't go start your org and mimic the D9. You do you for the reasons that inspire you. And, if your reasons are so different from the D9 then your true uniqueness will shine through. You won't have to go around looking for reasons to justify your org.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Like I said, the two most common reasons seem to be they were either rejected from their D9 of choice or they were disillusioned with the D9 they joined. Fine. But, if you (the general you) are going to be all with the D9 for what ever reason, then don't go start your org and mimic the D9. You do you for the reasons that inspire you. And, if your reasons are so different from the D9 then your true uniqueness will shine through. You won't have to go around looking for reasons to justify your org.

I have to agree with this. I can understand wanting to start your own organization but I don't understand why anyone would want to mimic those that they are trying so hard NOT to be like, unless they are going to add something unique.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have to agree with this. I can understand wanting to start your own organization but I don't understand why anyone would want to mimic those that they are trying so hard NOT to be like, unless they are going to add something unique.

if you are going to ask the questions of mimicing...then u have to then ask your orginal founders WHY they created their orgs...as another question i am so commonly asked....and I am SURE somewhere along the line ..WHY on GOD'S green earth would a BLACK person join a GREEK LETTERED organization and not an African one.....and yet...it's a valid and fair question. It's not like the 9 did anything different than newer GLO's are doing...they got grief for wanting to do something and for various reasons they didn't find it among what was already present and made the decision to branch out and carve thier own niche....it's like trying to tell someone that there are only 9 things in life you can ever hope to be and out of those 9 you can only truly choose one without giving that person the benefit of saying....well I know that there is more to this world than 9 choices.....just like your founders made the choice to start soemthing of thier own and no matter 'how unique' they are supposed to be, they / we all serve the same purpose....THAT is the bottom line.


The only thing that divides us are our colors and our symbols....take that away and what else are we.....

Bottom Line: Most of us joined our respective organization to in some capacity serve the communites in which we live right?

Last time I checked...I did

And truthfully? Bottom Line?

I could just as easily do without and did it either on my own or as an individual..but as just another gardener out here...nothing gets cultivated without extra hands...questio is...who else's hands do you trust to help you?

Read my quote at the bottom of this page please....define that for yourself because when it comes right dfonw to it, that is how I feel about Greekdom.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

if you are going to ask the questions of mimicing...then u have to then ask your orginal founders WHY they created their orgs...as another question i am so commonly asked....and I am SURE somewhere along the line ..WHY on GOD'S green earth would a BLACK person join a GREEK LETTERED organization and not an African one.....and yet...it's a valid and fair question. It's not like the 9 did anything different than newer GLO's are doing...they got grief for wanting to do something and for various reasons they didn't find it among what was already present and made the decision to branch out and carve thier own niche....it's like trying to tell someone that there are only 9 things in life you can ever hope to be and out of those 9 you can only truly choose one without giving that person the benefit of saying....well I know that there is more to this world than 9 choices.....just like your founders made the choice to start soemthing of thier own and no matter 'how unique' they are supposed to be, they / we all serve the same purpose....THAT is the bottom line.


The only thing that divides us are our colors and our symbols....take that away and what else are we.....

Bottom Line: Most of us joined our respective organization to in some capacity serve the communites in which we live right?

Last time I checked...I did

And truthfully? Bottom Line?

I could just as easily do without and did it either on my own or as an individual..but as just another gardener out here...nothing gets cultivated without extra hands...questio is...who else's hands do you trust to help you?

Read my quote at the bottom of this page please....define that for yourself because when it comes right dfonw to it, that is how I feel about Greekdom.

Well, actually, it has been my understanding that Greek life really had its founding in the Free Masons and Phi Beta Kappa.

It terms of mimicing I am referring to the fact that many of these newer groups take all the characteristics that are commonly associated with the D9 like stepping/strolling, hand signs, calls, line names/numbers, symbols, colors - then say, well we are different. I don't mention rituals because I don't know the rituals of these orgs, nor of the others, but it would not surprise me if some of these newer groups 'borrowed' aspects of established groups. I'm just sayin'

I have no problem that these new orgs exist. Great. Maybe we do need more choice. But, at the same time I get the feeling that you feel compelled to explain why your org exists. As long as you do you, then you won't find yourself on a message board asking why you and others made the choice (other than the D9) that you did.

[Little32]

^^ And from the sites that I perused yesterday, because of reading some of these threads, it seems like a lot of these orgs are mimicking the most superficial qualities. It seems like the focus is having a call, symbols, and colors. So in that way, these groups are merely a shade of the D9 orgs they imitate, because of how peripheral those elements really are to our organizations.

Oh and I would have to disagree with the statement that the D9 orgs are all fundamentally the same. We do have one purpose in common, but that purpose is not our only purpose. Also, our approaches as to how best achieve that purpose, basically the philosophies of our organizations, are very different as is evidenced by the type of programming that the different organizations offer. Again, to make such a statement suggests only a superficial understanding of the D9.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Well, actually, it has been my understanding that Greek life really had its founding in the Free Masons and Phi Beta Kappa.

It terms of mimicing I am referring to the fact that many of these newer groups take all the characteristics that are commonly associated with the D9 like stepping/strolling, hand signs, calls, line names/numbers, symbols, colors - then say, well we are different. I don't mention rituals because I don't know the rituals of these orgs, nor of the others, but it would not surprise me if some of these newer groups 'borrowed' aspects of established groups. I'm just sayin'

I have no problem that these new orgs exist. Great. Maybe we do need more choice. But, at the same time I get the feeling that you feel compelled to explain why your org exists. As long as you do you, then you won't find yourself on a message board asking why you and others made the choice (other than the D9) that you did.

kewl...I can deal with that... let me hit you with this too...it's been a min since I really deep checked in and really saw that there are a lot of newer orgs popping up and at such high rates too...thus that was why I asked the question. You may know like I do, that once u really get out of school some of that really doens't concern you because you barely have enough time to keep up with what your own,(Work, Family yadda yadda) Thus when I foun dthis board along with some of the info one of my frat sent me, I was like ....WWWWOOOOOOOWWW...there are a lot of other folks who are going in other directions than whats already available... this was kind of apparent when I went up to Morgan a few years ago and peeped the handbook and saw the list of non NPHC orgs....so I wonder like some of you wonder and you don't learn anything without asking. And yeah you got some that are so non creative that the best they could do was slap a new coat of paint on thier org and calling a GLO...and you have some others that saw a void and filled it.

I am simply curious about anything that is new..but I sometimes find it easier to explain who I am first and set the table so that others can feel at ease joining in

No one can ever understand where ya going if they can't see where ya coming from....ya dig?

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

if you are going to ask the questions of mimicing...then u have to then ask your orginal founders WHY they created their orgs...as another question i am so commonly asked....and I am SURE somewhere along the line ..WHY on GOD'S green earth would a BLACK person join a GREEK LETTERED organization and not an African one.....and yet...it's a valid and fair question. It's not like the 9 did anything different than newer GLO's are doing...they got grief for wanting to do something and for various reasons they didn't find it among what was already present and made the decision to branch out and carve thier own niche....it's like trying to tell someone that there are only 9 things in life you can ever hope to be and out of those 9 you can only truly choose one without giving that person the benefit of saying....well I know that there is more to this world than 9 choices.....just like your founders made the choice to start soemthing of thier own and no matter 'how unique' they are supposed to be, they / we all serve the same purpose....THAT is the bottom line.


The only thing that divides us are our colors and our symbols....take that away and what else are we.....

Bottom Line: Most of us joined our respective organization to in some capacity serve the communites in which we live right?

Last time I checked...I did

And truthfully? Bottom Line?

I could just as easily do without and did it either on my own or as an individual..but as just another gardener out here...nothing gets cultivated without extra hands...questio is...who else's hands do you trust to help you?

Read my quote at the bottom of this page please....define that for yourself because when it comes right dfonw to it, that is how I feel about Greekdom.

What's valid and fair about this question? I have never thought this question was valid or fair, but rather uninformed. When someone asks me this, all it tells me is that the person asking either THINKS they know everything there is to know about our organizations OR they are just looking for a reason to put us down, but it doesn't work with me either way because I know who I am and I know a great deal about my history. Then you have those that have studied some or a lot about African history and wish to condemn anything that isn't what they perceive to be "Afrocentric." I have encountered all of these types and in each situation I am able to hold my own. For one thing people have a tendency to study history and then take what they've learned and apply it to every modern situation regardless of the circumstances surrounding it in the present day. Yes, our founders created our orgs at a time when many African Americans were looking to fit in with the White community. We know this and I don't think that any of us can rightfully fault them for trying to get ahead in the unjust environment in which they lived and was trying to progress in. None of us can personally identify with what their struggle was truly like. Was it easier to assume a greek letter name just as the White greeks had before them? I would imagine so. Would it have been welcomed to give themselves an African name when most things having to do with "Blackness" wasn't welcomed? I'm sure it wouldn't have been. Would they ever have received a charter on a predominently White campus if they had an African name back then? Did they even think about giving themselves an African name? We'll never know for sure but it's obvious when you look at all of the NPHC orgs and see the various symbols that relate to our heritage, that our founders were not void of their sense of self and a connection to their African history. In fact the reason that the D9 orgs developed their own ways of relating to one another: calls, handsigns, stepping (things that some of us think are superficial but I don't) are rooted in our need to stay connected to one another and to our heritage. If you read about some of the rituals of some African societies (the Mende is a good example), you'll find that much of what we do (or did) and how we do it can be compared to that of some African tribal groups.

As for why we don't change our names today? I used to think about this but I realized that we just don't need to. If you know who you are personally and you know who you are as an organization, there is no need to change your name just to appease those who do not understand. Today, our orgs are businesses and our names are a Brand, a very popular, marketed brand at that. I believe this is the reason that the NAACP won't change their name even though we are no longer calling ourselves "Colored People."

The bottom line is...don't allow anyone to try and intimidate you with this question and I have seen many of our members do just that when faced with this question. If you know your history and the history of our orgs, there is nothing that anyone can say to you. Tell the person who's asking to do the research.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

What's valid and fair about this question? I have never thought this question was valid or fair, but rather uninformed. When someone asks me this, all it tells me is that the person asking either THINKS they know everything there is to know about our organizations OR they are just looking for a reason to put us down, but it doesn't work with me either way because I know who I am and I know a great deal about my history. )

Tempst....thank u for that response....altho I said it's a valid and fair question considering the history between Greek and African culture...I don't necessarily agree with that line of questioning considering as you said, that some of those that try to pose it. However, I look at the question as a valid one considering the fact that anyone trying to gain knowledge (at least some of those that has apporached me on that subject) is trying to connect and answer the Why the Greek and how does it fir into our state of being here in the US.

What I am trying to say is, it's not a stupid question depending on how it's asked. People tend to be curious and a certain logic somewhere along the line must have been applied before the question came up...I am comfortable in where I am and who I am and in the traditions that my org. has. I try not to assume anything from anyone once that question has been asked but wait for further discourse before I gauge where they are trying to take it....mind you...YES...there have been some very misinformed people that have tried exactly what you have said...and sometimes...hey...it's almost a no win situation and they have to choose to believe what they believe...but hey everything is not made for everybody.

...thanks again....

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Tempst....thank u for that response....altho I said it's a valid and fair question considering the history between Greek and African culture...I don't necessarily agree with that line of questioning considering as you said, that some of those that try to pose it. However, I look at the question as a valid one considering the fact that anyone trying to gain knowledge (at least some of those that has apporached me on that subject) is trying to connect and answer the Why the Greek and how does it fir into our state of being here in the US.

What I am trying to say is, it's not a stupid question depending on how it's asked. People tend to be curious and a certain logic somewhere along the line must have been applied before the question came up...I am comfortable in where I am and who I am and in the traditions that my org. has. I try not to assume anything from anyone once that question has been asked but wait for further discourse before I gauge where they are trying to take it....mind you...YES...there have been some very misinformed people that have tried exactly what you have said...and sometimes...hey...it's almost a no win situation and they have to choose to believe what they believe...but hey everything is not made for everybody.

...thanks again....

I totally understand where you're coming from but if people would just think about it they would realize that the world's peoples have a long standing history of taking on the languages, religions, customs, etc. of their oppressors and making it their own (we know how English became the most dominant language in the world, don't we?). Through events like war, colonialism, slavery, apartheid, etc. etc., we move on while still carrying the battle scars of the past. I think that as long as we know and appreciate our ancestors and their relationship with the greeks and what came out of it, we have overcome far more than a language and some letters. As a matter of fact, you might say we simply took back what was rightfully ours to begin with.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Diva...I have been in for 13 years....the only reason why I brought this topic up is that I am seeing more and more new orgs popping up than there was when I first crossed way back when and now that I am seeing lots and lots of these new orgs, I am curious about their perspectives for doing something against the grain

You do realize that every D9 org. was founded to go against the then existing grain?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

You do realize that every D9 org. was founded to go against the then existing grain?

awww come on now...sweetie I wasnt born yesterday...

Sigma Pi Phi and then Alpha Phi Alpha was created out of that very reason...the Prince Hall Masons...one of the very reasons why frats and sororities also exists was created because whites found ways to keep black lodge members out

just like I know that 22 of the AKAs seceeded because they couldn't see eye to eye on the direction of the sorority at that time and thus your sorority was created...please don't try to insult my intelligence....just because I am in a younger org doesn't mean I am not knowledgable about the 9.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

awww come on now...sweetie I wasnt born yesterday...

Sigma Pi Phi and then Alpha Phi Alpha was created out of that very reason...the Prince Hall Masons...one of the very reasons why frats and sororities also exists was created because whites found ways to keep black lodge members out

just like I know that 22 of the AKAs seceeded because they couldn't see eye to eye on the direction of the sorority at that time and thus your sorority was created...please don't try to insult my intelligence....just because I am in a younger org doesn't mean I am not knowledgable about the 9.

Um, first of all I am not your sweetie and second, compared to me you were born yesterday. Lastly, I was responding to your post, so if my response insulted your intelligence that speaks more to your post than mine.

[L.O.C.K.]

Interesting topic. I wonder what things will be like in 50 years?

With the Latino, Asian, and Black populations all increasing more than the White population, I wonder whats going to happen?

Could be some interesting things happening in Greek Life.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Um, first of all I am not your sweetie and second, compared to me you were born yesterday. Lastly, I was responding to your post, so if my response insulted your intelligence that speaks more to your post than mine.

Glad I read ahead.