Rider Student Dies After Fraternity Drinking Binge

[Laak 315]

Actually, I was unaware of what I was doing for the rest of the night...I was told I vomited quite a bit in the bathroom with numerous people in there with me to make sure I didn't "drown" in the toilet, or anything of the sort. Unfortunately, people don't know how serious a condition a person can be in when he/she drinks too much. Why do you think people who drank too much the night before aren't found dead until the next morning? It's because the other people think that person is simply passed out...not brain-dead/poisoned. I don't fault anyone at the party I was at for not taking me to the hospital or calling 911. I'm positive they would have had they been given certain signs (such as me not breathing, blue face, etc..., even though it probably would have been too late...) It would have been nice if they did lol, but I don't blame anyone for not knowing how bad off I was. They probably didn't know how serious of a condition I was in since I was still awake and was very talkative, from what I am told. (I blacked out but that doesn't mean I wasn't still awake and engaging in conversations etc...) The fraternity brothers of the guy in the article probably thought he was simply sleeping/passed out for awhile, before they decided to call 911. Unfortunately, in today's society, I don't think too many people on a college campus are going to call 911 immediately just because they see someone who has been drinking passed out. Maybe they should, but the average college-person's mentality seems to be that they are fine and will wake up the next morning. So, in summary, if you are trying to blame my fraternity brothers for me being in bad shape, I think you're wasting your time. I certainly don't blame them. It wasn't their idea for me to drink so much. I take full responsibility for my actions and had I died that night, it would have been my fault, not theirs. I learned my lesson the hard way, but sometimes that's what it takes for a person to learn a lesson. As sad as it is to hear about the guy in the article dying, no one is really to blame but himself. He's the one who drank so much of his own free will (as I stated, 3/4 a bottle of vodka is ridiculous). To blame his fraternity brothers is ludicrous in my opinion.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

Actually, I was unaware of what I was doing for the rest of the night...I was told I vomited quite a bit in the bathroom with numerous people in there with me to make sure I didn't "drown" in the toilet, or anything of the sort. Unfortunately, people don't know how serious a condition a person can be in when he/she drinks too much. Why do you think people who drank too much the night before aren't found dead until the next morning? It's because the other people think that person is simply passed out...not brain-dead/poisoned. I don't fault anyone at the party I was at for not taking me to the hospital or calling 911. I'm positive they would have had they been given certain signs (such as me not breathing, blue face, etc..., even though it probably would have been too late...) It would have been nice if they did lol, but I don't blame anyone for not knowing how bad off I was. They probably didn't know how serious of a condition I was in since I was still awake and was very talkative, from what I am told. (I blacked out but that doesn't mean I wasn't still awake and engaging in conversations etc...) The fraternity brothers of the guy in the article probably thought he was simply sleeping/passed out for awhile, before they decided to call 911. Unfortunately, in today's society, I don't think too many people on a college campus are going to call 911 immediately just because they see someone who has been drinking passed out. Maybe they should, but the average college-person's mentality seems to be that they are fine and will wake up the next morning. So, in summary, if you are trying to blame my fraternity brothers for me being in bad shape, I think you're wasting your time. I certainly don't blame them. It wasn't their idea for me to drink so much. I take full responsibility for my actions and had I died that night, it would have been my fault, not theirs. I learned my lesson the hard way, but sometimes that's what it takes for a person to learn a lesson. As sad as it is to hear about the guy in the article dying, no one is really to blame but himself. He's the one who drank so much of his own free will (as I stated, 3/4 a bottle of vodka is ridiculous). To blame his fraternity brothers is ludicrous in my opinion.

You are very kind to your Brothers. While I would not use the word "blame", I do believe that they failed to use common sense and knowledge to be pro-active. They failed to protect you when you were unable to protect yourself or even explain what you felt like.

In my chapter, we more than once sent Brothers to the ER for medical exams.

At least once for ODing on alcohol and once due to an allergic reaction to a drug.

[Tom Earp]

Sorry, this will be one of the few posts I will answer anymore, but drinking until drunk and throwing up in the Toilet or trash can is never funny. If it is condoned by His fellow members I just do not understand!

In doing this, I wonder why anyone even Associated/Pledged these new people and allow this to happen?

One never knows what this person can take and then dies!

Could He have been a great member and goe on to other things bigger and better?

[Laak 315]

I never said it was funny to vomit in a toilet and I never said my actions that night were condoned by my fellow brothers...As far as my fraternity brothers "not caring" how bad of shape I was in, if they didn't care, they would have just let me pass out on a couch or outside somewhere without checking on me/having somebody with me at all times. Instead, from what I have been told from numerous people (including non-fraternity members and girls), at least two people were with me at all times that night to make sure I didn't stop breathing, etc...As I stated, it seems that most college kids don't really know how bad off a person is by just looking at them. I fully understand that just because a person who has drank too much is breathing, doesn't necessarily mean they are alright. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem too many college kids understand this. Again, I take full responsibility for my actions and if I don't blame my fraternity brothers for MY actions, I don't see how anyone else has the right to do so.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I never said it was funny to vomit in a toilet and I never said my actions that night were condoned by my fellow brothers...As far as my fraternity brothers "not caring" how bad of shape I was in, if they didn't care, they would have just let me pass out on a couch or outside somewhere without checking on me/having somebody with me at all times. Instead, from what I have been told from numerous people (including non-fraternity members and girls), at least two people were with me at all times that night to make sure I didn't stop breathing, etc...As I stated, it seems that most college kids don't really know how bad off a person is by just looking at them. I fully understand that just because a person who has drank too much is breathing, doesn't necessarily mean they are alright. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem too many college kids understand this. Again, I take full responsibility for my actions and if I don't blame my fraternity brothers for MY actions, I don't see how anyone else has the right to do so.

Again, unless the people "standing by" you were EMT/Paramedics/LPN, they had no idea just what was wrong with you and how to handle it.
If they even had a thought about you not being able to breath, they should have called 911 rather than wonder what if. What they "did" was just short of doing nothing. Because the odds are rather good that if something had happened, by the time true help arrived, you would have been dead. For all they did was waste the "golden time".
You were very lucky.
And if you saw some one today in that condition, what would you do?

[Laak 315]

I think this is probably going to keep going back and forth. I understand your argument and it makes sense. Hopefully you understand mine. You are saying that guys in my fraternity should have called 911 because of the condition I was in. However, are you suggesting that anyone who has so little as one shot of alcohol in the course of one night should have 911 called on them to make sure they are alright? At what point does a person need to intervene? It's open to interpretation. If I saw a person who I was with the whole night who had one shot and that was all and seemed to me to be perfectly fine, I'm not going to call 911. Maybe I'm a bad person for not doing so. I don't know anyone who would and I doubt you do either. However, couldn't it be possible that a person might have some sort of a reaction to one shot of alcohol later on? Could it be possible that one shot of alcohol could trigger something in the brain and hurt that person later? Yes, it's certainly possible, since anything is possible in this world. I admit there is a fine line regarding knowing whether a person is alright or not as it pertains to alcohol. I just hope people use their best judgement. Can you honestly say that throughout your entire college career, you've called 911 on every single person you have seen passed out at a party? If you can, my hat is off to you, but if so, I think you might be a little too paranoid. I feel as though I have used my best judgment in assessing whether a person needs to be taken to the hospital in regards to mis-use of alcohol. Again, I don't buy the argument that fraternity brothers are to blame for a single member over-drinking, if it was that single member's choice. If I don't know my own limits, that's my fault, not anyone else's. They're my brothers, but they shouldn't have to take the wrap for something stupid I did...

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I think this is probably going to keep going back and forth. I understand your argument and it makes sense. Hopefully you understand mine. You are saying that guys in my fraternity should have called 911 because of the condition I was in. However, are you suggesting that anyone who has so little as one shot of alcohol in the course of one night should have 911 called on them to make sure they are alright? At what point does a person need to intervene? It's open to interpretation. If I saw a person who I was with the whole night who had one shot and that was all and seemed to me to be perfectly fine, I'm not going to call 911. Maybe I'm a bad person for not doing so. I don't know anyone who would and I doubt you do either. However, couldn't it be possible that a person might have some sort of a reaction to one shot of alcohol later on? Could it be possible that one shot of alcohol could trigger something in the brain and hurt that person later? Yes, it's certainly possible, since anything is possible in this world. I admit there is a fine line regarding knowing whether a person is alright or not as it pertains to alcohol. I just hope people use their best judgment. Can you honestly say that throughout your entire college career, you've called 911 on every single person you have seen passed out at a party? If you can, my hat is off to you, but if so, I think you might be a little too paranoid. I feel as though I have used my best judgment in assessing whether a person needs to be taken to the hospital in regards to mis-use of alcohol. Again, I don't buy the argument that fraternity brothers are to blame for a single member over-drinking, if it was that single member's choice. If I don't know my own limits, that's my fault, not anyone else's. They're my brothers, but they shouldn't have to take the wrap for something stupid I did...

While I never said anything about one shot it is an interesting point as I do know some one who is allergic to alcohol. They had some punch at a party that was "spiked" and had a rather bad reaction; much like yours if not much worse as they were found pale as a ghost and just about unconscious. All because of one drink or sip of one drink.
His friends called 911 and he lived.

So it is not the amount, it is the result or reaction to it.

Nor is it truly a matter of just over-drinking, it is how to handle the results and consequences


And just judging from what you have written, while you may have learned something, you are still in a state of denial.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

Actually, I was unaware of what I was doing for the rest of the night...I was told I vomited quite a bit in the bathroom with numerous people in there with me to make sure I didn't "drown" in the toilet, or anything of the sort. Unfortunately, people don't know how serious a condition a person can be in when he/she drinks too much. Why do you think people who drank too much the night before aren't found dead until the next morning? It's because the other people think that person is simply passed out...not brain-dead/poisoned. I don't fault anyone at the party I was at for not taking me to the hospital or calling 911. I'm positive they would have had they been given certain signs (such as me not breathing, blue face, etc..., even though it probably would have been too late...) It would have been nice if they did lol, but I don't blame anyone for not knowing how bad off I was. They probably didn't know how serious of a condition I was in since I was still awake and was very talkative, from what I am told. (I blacked out but that doesn't mean I wasn't still awake and engaging in conversations etc...) The fraternity brothers of the guy in the article probably thought he was simply sleeping/passed out for awhile, before they decided to call 911. Unfortunately, in today's society, I don't think too many people on a college campus are going to call 911 immediately just because they see someone who has been drinking passed out. Maybe they should, but the average college-person's mentality seems to be that they are fine and will wake up the next morning. So, in summary, if you are trying to blame my fraternity brothers for me being in bad shape, I think you're wasting your time. I certainly don't blame them. It wasn't their idea for me to drink so much. I take full responsibility for my actions and had I died that night, it would have been my fault, not theirs. I learned my lesson the hard way, but sometimes that's what it takes for a person to learn a lesson. As sad as it is to hear about the guy in the article dying, no one is really to blame but himself. He's the one who drank so much of his own free will (as I stated, 3/4 a bottle of vodka is ridiculous). To blame his fraternity brothers is ludicrous in my opinion.

I'm always on the fence on this one. The fact is that some people "pass out" because they're tired and drunk and it definitely wouldn't be appropriate to take them to the ER...but how do you tell if it's more than that?

I say better safe than sorry.

I also say that much alcohol in that small amount of time is a good indication that trouble may be ahead. I've stayed up all night with people watching them more than once, just to make sure they didn't keep throwing up and choke (try keeping a drunk person on their side...they don't listen) or have trouble breathing, if I thought it was a borderline situation. I have to say I've never been in a situation where someone had enough alcohol to do either of those things while asleep, but I can see it happening easily and if no one is paying attention, it's easy for them to die.

But here's the thing, .426? They should have known in this case. If even one person knew he drank that much, that's a problem. Taking a few shots in an hour or two and passing out later and taking almost a whole bottle of Absolut in minutes and passing out are different situations.

In the end we're all responsible for our own actions...it's pure stupidity to drink that much that fast...it's like going 100 down a highway with your eyes closed. But at the same time, just as FRIENDS, it's important to care enough to pay attention to friends.