Expansion Problems

[ECUJacob]

His name was Josh, I think, and he was a Ed. Const. for my chapter. I believe that ECUJacob knows him.

I have known quite a few Leadership Consultants in my time as a Beta, but I don't readily recall one named Josh. Although I do agree that before opening a chapter we should evaluate whether or not we should "associate ourselves with their Greek Community".

I also think it would be a great idea to reactivate some closed chapters. North Carolina, as a state, only has three chapters. I've heard rumors of starting up a chapter at UNC-Wilmington. That might work, but it might not. I wonder if they've considered reopening the Davidson chapter.

I have had a lot of trouble understanding why Florida has 8 chapters/colonies and some other states only have a couple.

[furmanbeta]

Whoa there Jake. Do we want to be associated with a given school's Greek Community should not be the question here. The question should be, do we want to be associated with the school? If you're at a quality school, you have a great chance of getting quality guys, regardless of whether or not the Greek system at the school is shit. With that mindset, let me just throw out a couple of schools that we SHOULD be associated with:

Washington and Lee
Wake Forest
University of Richmond
Wofford
The College of Charleston
Union College (yeah, just a little bit of history at that joint)
Harvard
Amherst
Dartmouth
Swarthmore
Davidson (though I'm pretty sure fraternities aren't allowed there anymore)

And this is what I came up with in about 2 minutes. Small schools, great reputations, and Beta's not there. We either used to be or never tried. We need a bunch of the major state schools to get added too. Who are we to say that a given school isn't worthy of having Beta Theta Pi there? I guarentee you that at ALL of these schools, there are literally hundreds of guys who would make great Betas, but can't because Beta's not there. Get off your high horse, we need to expand rapidly.

[ECUJacob]

Get off your high horse, we need to expand rapidly.

Rest assured, furmanbeta, I'm not on a "high horse", as you so rudely put it. I'm speaking from personal experience. Your mentality is both scary and ignorant. Before expanding an organization into oblivion, maybe you should consider the status of our current chapters. Before adding more kids to a family, we should make sure we can house/feed/clothe the ones we have first. Given that the GF only has a given # of staff members, they won't be able to execute but a small number of expansions every year.

If you're at a quality school, you have a great chance of getting quality guys, regardless of whether or not the Greek system at the school is shit.

That's not true. Regardless of the quality of your school, if your Greek Life system is unsatisfactory or unappealing, no students will want to be a part of it. A good example? EAST CAROLINA. Our Greek system is in desparate need of reform/repair. That being said, our school is only 7% Greek because of the negative public image it holds.

[sdbeta1]

Washington and Lee, Richmond, Wofford, Charleston, Union, Amherst, Swarthmore, Davidosn??? I personally had never heard of any of these schools until after joining Beta, this being the first time I heard of Swarthmore or Wofford, with the exception of a few I don't even know what state those campuses are located. What makes these schools better suited than other schools such as Stanford, UCSD, Claremont McKenna, CIT, San Francisco, St. Marys, Gonzaga, Portland? There are always going to be more schools without Beta chapters, than schools with Beta chapters. Anyways, I'm off to flirt with the cute redhead sitting across the lab.

[furmanbeta]

First off, sdbeta, I was not suggesting that these are the only schools to which we should expand, I was merely throwing them out as examples. All of those schools are either within ECUJacob's vicinity, or colleges of national reknown. I was trying to relate it to him more directly, and was in no way trying to slight West Coast Schools.

Now, back to you Jake. I hate to break it to you, but from an academic standpoint, y'all aren't even close to the league of the schools I mentioned, with the possible exceptions of Wofford and Union (I don't know their admission standards quite as well). I can't speak to whether or not your school's Greek system needs to change, as I don't go to school there. The point I was making is that there are a number of students out there, at your school and across the nation, who are Betas in spirit, but not members of the organization itself. Maybe it's because of the negative connotations of the Greek system in general, maybe it's because there isn't a Beta chapter there, maybe it's because the Beta chapter at their school sucks. Regardless of the situation, it does not diminish my point.

Should we fix failing chapters which are in existance? Absolutely. You can't be a powerhouse with many weak links in the chain. But does fixing chapters mean that you can't expand? I don't think it does. We are one of the wealthiest national fraternities in America, despite the fact that we are below many others in terms of both numbers of chapters and numbers of members (active or alumni). Recruitment needs to be Beta's next major focus. Recruitment within existing chapters, recruitment at new chapters.

Based on stats from US News and world report, your school has roughly 18,000 students. If 7% of them are Greek, that gives you about 1300 students engaged in Greek Life. That's not too horrible of a number. Larger schools inherently have smaller Greek populations on a percentage basis. You're actually existing in a chicken and the egg scenario, but apparently not seeing it. Does your school have low numbers because of the Greek system's reputation or maybe do people come to ECU because they don't want to be Greek? I can't answer this, and I'm not entirely sure that you could either.

Basically, we need to expand AND support our existing chapters better. It shouldn't be one or the other.

[ZZ-kai-]

You guys are hilarious. If you don't like the way Beta is expanding today, call up 800-800-BETA and talk to the Director of Expansion, or go to the nearby college (of your choice, of course) and start recruiting an interest group, then form the colony. Complaining, or discussing (whatever you want to call it), on some internet board, will accomplish nothing.

That said, I also agree that Beta needs to expand, big time. But I trust those who are in charge of expansion, to do the right thing - and I believe they are today. Could they do more? Yep. But so could you, I and everyone else.

PS, ETA: Bigger doesn't always mean better. IE, SigEp, TKE...etc. They expanded like rabbits, and it didn't really do them any good. "We have 250 chapters!". "Yeah, well you're still a TKE."

[old_south]

I think we need to stop the rapid expansion and take a look at some of the active chapters we have now which arent representing Beta well. When a chapter has less than 40 men, and no social involvement with other greek organizations this chapter needs help. When I go visit friends at Ole Miss for instance and tell people I am a Beta, immediately I must explian how our chapter is good and very different from the one at Ole Miss. I believe that the expansion will hurt us by adding sub-par chapters at a bunch of second tier schools. Instead we need to limit our numbers and improve the quality of chapters at the school which we are currently located.

[EE-BO]

Coramoor- if someone at GF ever said to me what was allegedly (not that I don't believe you- just being fair since the other side has not spoken here) said to you, I would have some choice words for him.

There are many arguments here- all with some merit, but none I could wholly endorse.

The difficulty I see here is in GF taking too much of a hand in operations- specifically in expansion efforts.

A chapter cannot expand and maintain itself without active alumni participation. Not just because of the volunteer resources at hand, but because a chapter with alumni who want to be involved is clearly a chapter that was doing something right to produce alumni who thought more of their time at Beta than those college years when they were getting drunk and getting laid.

And alumni who had a rich experience and care will also be eager to re-start their old chapter or assist in the building of a chapter at a college near their current residence.

I think expansion should begin in the alumni groups local to a given college.

Then GF, in an administrative capacity, can provide general guidance and some degree of administrative support (which helps with the costs but is not just giving out cash.)

RTS is a good example. This is great. It has helped my chapter recruit some top men- including our current President who is a damn good leader. $5,000 in RTS funds to help alumni with an expansion would be a great thing. It is not about the money so much as it is about the message that is sent- we want men who take their studies seriously. This is all the more important since colleges have expanded and more people are coming and either partying or dropping out because they should not even be there in the first place. RTS is a great way to send the message that we want people who are interested in a social life and in personal growth socially, but also know they are here to get a degree and have career choices first and foremost.

GF should of course have the ability to deny an expansion if they have a really good reason they are willing to state and stand by. A minimum degree of demonstrated alumni support is a good requirement- and perhaps the process should be drawn out a bit to ensure those alumni stay up with the process (i.e. you weed out those who lose interest quickly and will not be good long-term volunteers.) Plus GF should be able to limit the number of expansions in a given region in a given year.

But Risk Management and Image Management from the top is window dressing in my view- and does little to help either.

Risk and image management begins at the chapter level, and it has just as much to do with alumni involvement and the individuals recruited as it has to do with the reputation of a given school or Greek system.

My chapter happens to be at one of those big southern schools where the greeks are hated and frequent press targets. But most of those incidents can be attributed to a very few chapters- and certainly not ours. In fact, we have the longest continuity of any fraternity at my alma mater- we have never been shut down, ever.

And while I will not get specific here, I am sure many of you are aware of chapter(s) of ours that received huge MPI support and were considered to be at good schools with the right image- and yet our chapters there failed horribly and publicly.

30 years ago, fraternities- by all accounts- were pretty wild places compared to today. A fellow alum from a prior era recently told me that he does not like to tell stories about the "good old days" because he does not want to give the actives of today any ideas that they should stray from their current direction in an effort to emulate some of our past sins.

And this man happens to be a real key to our chapter's success today.

I think actives appreciate and look up to volunteer alumni who care about the chapter and also about applying our experience and maturity to temper some of the temptations of youth.

It is a fine line, but it is the same kind of positive and beneficial relationship that can come in any situation where someone who has "been there, done that" wants to help the new generation continue the legacy and maybe even make it a little better.

This is how you build a chapter- and it is not an overnight process. Time will tell if the current overnight process works, but I do not believe it will be any more successful than the approach I have outlined above. And the bad blood it is creating among the brotherhood cannot be ignored.

It is a good idea that, combined with what I am suggesting, would work out great. But for now, I think there is a bit too much reliance on GF and too little reliance on the alumni to identify and execute expansion efforts.

[Firehouse]

Men, thank you for being gracious and allowing me to come on the Beta board. I am not a Beta. I am an alumnus of a fraternity at Florida State, and I wish you would use your influence to push your national to reinstate your Delta Lambda chapter here. Coramoor, I think you and I corresponded once but I may be wrong. My father was a Beta at West Virginia.

The fraternity system here is mature, successful and well-housed (and housing is available). It's a beautiful southern campus, there are 40,000 students and the average fraternity chapter has around 100 men. The IFC is not opposed to expansion, the administration is not hostile (the University President and VP for Student Affairs are both FSU Greek alumni).

You can get in easily, and a reasonably enthusiastic, well-directed effort will produce a solid, stable 100+ man chapter at a major university. We have all the major nationals except for Beta. You would be welcome and appreciated.