Hazing -- Good or bad?

[Piswitch11]

I totally agree with you bows and toes, I mean it's understandable for the sororities and whatnot to not have to deal with any of that but since you were not "hazed", you might as well have joined one of those. You were probably given a package of letters and misc. stuff with a welcome letter since you didn't have to earn sh*t to get into your "FRAT", when guys like bows and I pledged the right way and can clearly say we are in a FRATERNITY!

[noobishactz]

This thread seems to be a never ending one. Everyone has their own opinion of what happens when a pledge has been hazed and how it fosters Brotherhood/Sisterhood. And these ideals do not seem to be changing.

Maybe in some schools which I consider to be in the "Dark Ages" not be be saying is wrong if they want to haze. Yet many National Organizations have sided against letting their Chapters Haze for many reasons. These may seem like a repeat of what everyone has been saying yet we are already going about on this topic:

1. Over the past decades insurance for organizations have been increasing greatly.
2. If a Group Hazes it creates a false sense a pride for the brothers/sisters and a false sense of being in control.
3. Brothers/Sisters feel since they have been hazed therefore it is alright to haze the next pledge class, hence creating a vicious circle of continuous hazing.
4. Hazing in most cases is not only against National Organizations By-Laws and University Rules but it is also illegal in 48 States and Criminal Actions may taken against you.
5. Hazing places a bad image on your group and discourages potential rushees from joining your group.
6. You truly to not get to know your pledges because they are too busy kissing your ass in order to get into your group and you will truly not be able to find out how they will act as a brother/sister.

I do not see how being Hazed makes you a real man. During my pledge ship we learned the history of our fraternity and learned about each other more with retreats and events and learning my groups history made my initiation all the better.

[RU OX Alum]

the main problem still, in my view, is a refussal to agree to a common definition, which prohibitits honest and meaningful discussion

[Tom Earp]

Agree, but Nationals do have rules and regulations and should be followed.

And Schools also have rules.

It is a shame isn't it that We cannot rule ourselves?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Agree, but Nationals do have rules and regulations and should be followed.

And Schools also have rules.

It is a shame isn't it that We cannot rule ourselves?

Most good chapters could give a shit what their Nationals think.......probably why they are good chapters.

[Elephant Walk]

It is a shame isn't it that We cannot rule ourselves?

Good chapters do.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yeah, Delt, not yet. We're only some of the best in the country, and have been for decades. I'm sure its coming...or MAYBE, despite everyone's infinite knowledge of what works for greek systems, we have a better grasp down here of what works and what advances our greek organization. I know, I know, its a crazy idea, I'm sure people from Oswego State's greek system know wayyyy more about traditional greek life than people at Alabama or Texas or UGA.

Your observations are most interesting given the number of Southern chapters in the threads below in RM that are in trouble.

On the day I'm writing, four of the next ten. A fluke? Maybe. Certainly highly unscientific, but there are a number of Southern chapters facing suspension or expulsion in this forum.

[shinerbock]

Well, we've got representatives from SEC schools and Texas here, how many top tier fraternities on those campuses have been kicked off in the last 5 years for hazing. I went to Auburn, our answer is none. A few have been put on social probation over the years, but that is pretty much it.

[Kevin]

Our IHQ recently closed chapters at South Carlina and Vanderbilt due to hazing.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Your observations are most interesting given the number of Southern chapters in the threads below in RM that are in trouble.

On the day I'm writing, four of the next ten. A fluke? Maybe. Certainly highly unscientific, but there are a number of Southern chapters facing suspension or expulsion in this forum.

I don't see any top tier Southern Chapters being listed for closing in any of the threads that I am looking at in Risk Management. I see the likes of Case Western, Central Florida, etc.

Maybe you'll have a point when we start seeing Auburn, Texas, SMU, TCU, Ole Miss, W&L, Vanderbilt, Alabama, Georgia, etc. Haven't seen any stories about top chatpers at any of these places being closed.

[shinerbock]

Sigma Nu is one of the best chapters on Auburn's campus, come back to me when they get in trouble...for anything.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Sigma Nu is one of the best chapters on Auburn's campus, come back to me when they get in trouble...for anything.

I know what you're saying, and I really doubt that happens -- although, Sigma Nu did shut down one of its top tier chapters (not in the South) fairly recently at Iowa. This was realistically one of our top 5 chapters.

[shinerbock]

Kevin the point is, for good chapters at southern schools (not UCF, real southern schools), the type of "hazing" we do rarely causes injury or gets the chapter in serious trouble. Our universities rarely penalize it, and if they do it is a slap on the wrist. Also, HQ usually looks the other direction because despite their goals of completely destroying greek life, they realize that its an entirely different ballgame down here. They also realize that treating southern chapters like other chapters would completely destroy any chance those southern chapters have at being good on their respective campuses.

[Kevin]

It will be instructive to see how Sigma Nu does recolonizing Vanderbilt.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Kevin the point is, for good chapters at southern schools (not UCF, real southern schools), the type of "hazing" we do rarely causes injury or gets the chapter in serious trouble. Our universities rarely penalize it, and if they do it is a slap on the wrist. Also, HQ usually looks the other direction because despite their goals of completely destroying greek life, they realize that its an entirely different ballgame down here. They also realize that treating southern chapters like other chapters would completely destroy any chance those southern chapters have at being good on their respective campuses.

Couldn't agree more.