JHU Sigma Chi "Halloween in the Hood Party"

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Shut up. If you can't leave your fraternity house without offending a group of people then you're a waste of flesh and college tuition.

I am sure that someone could be "offended" by just about everything we do...no matter how dumb or idiotic we may think it is for them to feel that way.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I am sure that someone could be "offended" by just about everything we do...no matter how dumb or idiotic we may think it is for them to feel that way.

This is a typical response in an attempt to remove all sense of responsibility from people. Freedom of speech, along with all freedoms, is not unlimited.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

blah blah I'm a dirty liberal

Yeah, so your liberal brainwash is pretty funny. Could you use any more marxist language? Throw in the words "proleteriat" and "bourgeoisie" and you've got yourself The Communist Manifesto.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Yeah, so your liberal brainwash is pretty funny. Could you use any more marxist language? Throw in the words "proleteriat" and "bourgeoisie" and you've got yourself The Communist Manifesto.

I find it hard to believe you've read that book or any other book.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I find it hard to believe that you've read that book or any other book.

Wow, insulting intelligence. Now that's never been done on a message board. Instead of being able to come up with some eloquent come back, it's just drivel that you usually write.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

This is a typical response in an attempt to remove all sense of responsibility from people. Freedom of speech, along with all freedoms, is not unlimited.

Oh chill out, seriously. If you think I was being completely serious in my response about staying in our fraternity houses......then you are taking all of this way too seriously.

The facebook invitation was overboard......obviously, and uncalled for......however.....the party itself wasn't that huge of a deal in my book. It was a themed party in which the BSU tried to find things that were "racist" that weren't actually there, i.e. the depiction of a lynching, etc.

[shinerbock]

DSTS, how is that taking responsibility away from people? Taking responsibility away from people is when you criminalize (or in this case, have the university take action) in order to prevent future events. If you really wanted to emphasize responsibility, you'd let these people generally do what they want, let them deal with the consequences, and leave it up to the offended party to make a decision on what to do/not do in response.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

DSTS, how is that taking responsibility away from people? Taking responsibility away from people is when you criminalize (or in this case, have the university take action) in order to prevent future events. If you really wanted to emphasize responsibility, you'd let these people generally do what they want, let them deal with the consequences, and leave it up to the offended party to make a decision on what to do/not do in response.

Isn't that what's going on here?

The University hasn't specified that themed parties aren't allowed or that certain themes are not permissable for everyone else, did they? So therefore the University is assuming that smart people can take a hint and will govern themselves accordingly in light of recent events. If they choose not to govern themselves accordingly, they will deal with the consequences and the offended party (for instance, the black students who the BSU is representing) will make a decision on what to do/not to do in response. So maybe Sigma Chi will get their status back and be able to hold parties again, JHU is probably putting things on hold for them so that this situation will die down.

The BSU didn't make any real decisions, they brought attention to something and semi-protested. I don't know what campus organizations you all are used to but the student-representative ones at the Universities I've attended have all been extremely proactive, reactive, and activist just like the BSU is in this instance. If the University has a problem with that, they will put the BSU in its place. Oh well.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Isn't that what's going on here?

The University hasn't specified that themed parties aren't allowed or that certain themes are not permissable for everyone else, did they? So therefore the University is assuming that smart people can take a hint and will govern themselves accordingly in light of recent events. If they choose not to govern themselves accordingly, they will deal with the consequences and the offended party (for instance, the black students who the BSU is representing) will make a decision on what to do/not to do in response. So maybe Sigma Chi will get their status back and be able to hold parties again, JHU is probably putting things on hold for them so that this situation will die down.

The BSU didn't make any real decisions, they brought attention to something and semi-protested. I don't know what campus organizations you all are used to but the student-representative ones at the Universities I've attended have all been extremely proactive, reactive, and activist just like the BSU is in this instance. If the University has a problem with that, they will put the BSU in its place. Oh well.

I don't deny that you make good points, but hear me out. The invite was incredibly racist. However, Sigma Chi brothers saw it, deemed it highly inappropriate and asked that it be taken down. It was, then put back up. The BSU saw the invite and went over the party to see what was up. Fair enough, I would have done the same thing. They saw the skeleton and that was enough. They did not go into the party where they may or may not have found some hard evidence. Accusing the Sigma Chis of racism based upon a PotC skeleton and an invite the Sigma Chis themselves condemned is just out of hand. They don't have anything to go on other than the racist facebook invitation which Sigma Chi did not condone in any way, and a skeleton that was unrelated.
That's the problem here.

[shinerbock]

DSTS, maybe I should have said natural consequences. Isn't the university taking action against the fraternity? I think they should make the fraternity fend for themselves, and work to rebuild their image.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by centaur532

I don't deny that you make good points, but hear me out. The invite was incredibly racist. However, Sigma Chi brothers saw it, deemed it highly inappropriate and asked that it be taken down. It was, then put back up. The BSU saw the invite and went over the party to see what was up. Fair enough, I would have done the same thing. They saw the skeleton and that was enough. They did not go into the party where they may or may not have found some hard evidence. Accusing the Sigma Chis of racism based upon a PotC skeleton and an invite the Sigma Chis themselves condemned is just out of hand. They don't have anything to go on other than the racist facebook invitation which Sigma Chi did not condone in any way, and a skeleton that was unrelated.
That's the problem here.

So where is the disagreement? We both acknowledge that an investigation began as a result of a facebook advertisement. So they went to the party and the first thing they saw was a (misinterpreted) skeleton and they figured they wouldn't be welcomed or comfortable at the party, anyway, because they deemed it racially offensive. I wouldn't have gone into the party, either, unless I was going to call them out. Human beings are very unlikely to say "ohhhh, fun party...Pirates of the Carribean skeleton...I guess we can forget about the facebook invite and call it even."

The point of an investigation is to iron things out and see if further action needs to be taken, which is why we now know that it was one Sigma Chi who did the invitation and put it back up. That one Sigma Chi was punished before this investigation became public but how would the BSU really know this? Did the Sigma Chis attempt to do some form of outreach to smooth things over? If so, good. If not, bad. But if anyone is calling the entire chapter racist solely based on this information, they are idiots and I don't make it my business to debate about the thoughts and actions of idiots.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

The facebook invitation was overboard......obviously, and uncalled for......

Yep and without that the BSU wouldn't have had a reason to get started.