The growth of radical Islam

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Yeah, this is pretty spot-on.

I'm not that surprised that you agree.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

I'm not that surprised that you agree.

That I agree that the 'downside' of free speech is that you have to tolerate hateful speech as long as it doesn't violate the constitutional freedoms of others?

Yes, that's not surprising at all.

Originally Posted by _Opi_

Yeah, I agree that death threats are very very bad. But uh, that's not the kind I was talking about.

And it's a shame that you can tolerate hate speech. I believe it should never be tolerated.

"Tolerate" in this case refers to the legal right of others to free speech - this is what MysticCat and I are discussing. I actually deleted a post similar to his just to prevent this kind of misunderstanding.

It should not be surprising, therefore, that I support the right of the Muslim community to speak out and protest these kind of characterizations as offensive - in that sense, I don't expect "tolerance" in the sense of non-response or laziness.

You're in law school, no? Seriously - this is a basic tenet of the founding ideals of the US. It sucks because we have to deal with bigoted idiots - but it's FAR better than the alternative, no?

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

That I agree that the 'downside' of free speech is that you have to tolerate hateful speech as long as it doesn't violate the constitutional freedoms of others?

Yes, that's not surprising at all.

You're in law school, no? Seriously - this is a basic tenet of the founding ideals of the US. It sucks because we have to deal with bigoted idiots - but it's FAR better than the alternative, no?

What does law school have anything to do with anything?

If the KKK were in my vicinity preaching hateful speech, I would exercise my right to speak against it. And I will not tolerate it, either.

In any case, I still don't understand what this ex-marine's business venture has to do with radical Islam?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

What does law school have anything to do with anything?

I didn't mean it as any sort of pejorative, just to note that I'm framing this as a 'legal' discussion, and trying to direct you back there.

Originally Posted by _Opi_

If the KKK were in my vicinity preaching hateful speech, I would exercise my right to speak against it. And I will not tolerate it, either.

Again - we're now in a semantic trap where we're using "tolerate" to mean two different things.

Speak against it, but recognize they have the right to say it. That's the entirety of the point MysticCat and I are promoting.

Originally Posted by _Opi_

In any case, I still don't understand what this ex-marine's business venture has to do with radical Islam?

Agreed completely - it's very suspect in this thread.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I didn't mean it as any sort of pejorative, just to note that I'm framing this as a 'legal' discussion, and trying to direct you back there.



Again - we're now in a semantic trap where we're using "tolerate" to mean two different things.

Speak against it, but recognize they have the right to say it. That's the entirety of the point MysticCat and I are promoting.

I never once suggested that they didnt have rights under free speech legally because I agree.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

er, I never said anything about punishment or doing anything illegal.

How would I show my distaste? I already have, buddy.

Originally Posted by _Opi_

I never once suggested that they didnt have rights under free speech legally because I agree.

Yet you have said things like, "I would exercise my right to speak against it. And I will not tolerate it, either." These statements suggest that "not tolerating" something involves more than speaking against it. And since the primary definition of "tolerate" is along the lines of "to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit," it follows that "not tolerating" something means either not to permit it or to impose retribution for it.

We're just trying to figure out exactly what you mean when you say hate speech or offensive speech should not be tolerated. If we're misunderstanding you, just say so. If you have "already shown" how you would show your "distaste," you must have done it somewhere other than in this discussion.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yet you have said things like, "I would exercise my right to speak against it. And I will not tolerate it, either." These statements suggest that "not tolerating" something involves more than speaking against it. And since the primary definition of "tolerate" is along the lines of "to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit," it follows that "not tolerating" something means either not to permit it or to impose retribution for it.
.

No, tolerating could mean that you voice your opinion against hate speech. I will give you an example, there was a KKK rally where I live in the beginning of summer. While the KKK had a right to rally in the steps of the Capitol, there was also counter-protests. Is this illegal? No. It just shows that people living here will not tolerate hate speech in their neighborhood. Now, I am not a fan of rallies. Alot of the time, people are not on the same page. I avoid it.

And I meant that I already showed my distaste by pointing out, in this thread, that it is hateful speech. What did you think I meant? lol. I bet you wouldnt ask me that if you thought I was christian or jewish. But I forgive you.