any "nice" conservatives out there?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

On a side note, liberalism doesn't give everyone the freedom to do whatever they want. Liberal ideology decides that the government should invest your money for you. They decide that your money should go to public welfare causes, regardless of moral objection to them. Many of them want to restrict or eliminate my access to firearms. They think that since me or you have plenty of money, we should have to turn over more of that money to the government than other people are required to. Just a few of the reasons I'm a conservative.

I agree with what KSig RC said, and I'll add that you are painting with way too broad a brush here. What you say may describe some (many) liberals, but recourse to any dictionary shows it to be a severe overgeneralization. I checked quite a few dictionaries, including Mirriam-Webster Collegiate, which defines liberalism as:

a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.

and the Random House Unabridged, which defines liberalism as:

political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.

You are not describing the actual definition of liberalism. You are describing the connotation that many "conservatives" have worked hard over the last few decades to wrap the word in, admittedly readily aided by many liberals.

Just part of the reason why I think "liberal" and "conservative" have become almost meaningless with regard to really understanding politics. The Mad Hatter has taken them and declared them to mean whatever he says they mean.

[shinerbock]

No, I'm describing the "real" definition of liberalism. I'm not gonna get into a political thought or economy class on what is a "liberal." When I say liberal, I'm referring to the context of the left-right political landscape in America. The definitions of liberalism or neo classical liberalism have very little to do with how it is used in a modern American political debate. It'd be nice if this site wasn't so academic so that we could talk about ACTUAL things without being corrected by someone pointing out what everyone who went to college already knows. I would use the term "democrat" but then some of you "liberals" would say, hey, I'm not a democrat, I'm an independent...it just so happens that I'm pro taxes, pro choice, pro affirmative actions, etc, etc...They're just terms, folks. Sorry for the tangent, it just really annoys me.

As for conservatives being for smaller government, this is true, somewhat. Modern conservatives obviously aren't for an entirely bare-bones government (once again we meet the "what is a conservative" discussion). That being said, I don't think being against gay marriage necessarily means being for bigger government. Gay marriage hasn't been allowed in the past, so an amendment or statute is merely affirming the practice for the future. Its not really restrictive if its never been allowed...

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

No, I'm describing the "real" definition of liberalism.

No, you're really describing the "working" definition of liberal used by many Americans who describe themselves as "conservatives." There is a difference between that and the actual meaning of a word. And yes, they are just terms, but unfortunately, they are terms that are becoming meaningless and therefore relatively useless.

As for whether being againt gay marriage = a true conservative position, I think it probably does, despite the conservative bent toward small government. Among the hallmarks of conservatism are maintaining ("conserving") established tradition, social stability and established institutions, as well as gradual ("conservative") change.

[shinerbock]

I agree, working is a better defining term, although I think my meaning is correct in the real context of American political debate. I don't think terms are losing their value, they're simply being applied in a more practical and less academic way. Of course, I'm a person who absolutely abhores theory, so it makes sense that I'd feel this way.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I don't think terms are losing their value, they're simply being applied in a more practical and less academic way. Of course, I'm a person who absolutely abhores theory, so it makes sense that I'd feel this way.

Perhaps, but with that practicality and decreased academicism comes decreased precision. As a lawyer, I like precision when it comes to words.

[shinerbock]

Yeah but from what I can tell terms in law often have a precise meaning, whether they facially appear that way or not...this is in contrast to other academia where terms often refer to some vague principle with little practical usage. At least when lawyers make up words other lawyers use them in real world situations, unlike my college professors who create terms and require us to learn about some terribly vague idea they created and published in a book which sold 16 copies to other equally aloof professors...As you can see this is a thinly veiled rant against the academic community.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

As you can see this is a thinly veiled rant against the academic community.

Rant away.

[alum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yeah but from what I can tell terms in law often have a precise meaning, whether they facially appear that way or not...this is in contrast to other academia where terms often refer to some vague principle with little practical usage. At least when lawyers make up words other lawyers use them in real world situations, unlike my college professors who create terms and require us to learn about some terribly vague idea they created and published in a book which sold 16 copies to other equally aloof professors...As you can see this is a thinly veiled rant against the academic community.

Or they assign it to their class so students have to buy it.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by non-greek newby

Hi Everyone,
I go to a pretty small school with a large liberal population. I find that many times the conservatives on this campus have been very unreceptive and plain nasty to anything that's liberal. I myself am probably somewhere in the middle, leaning towards the left. And I can say that I'm pretty tolerant of people, no matter what their political viewpoint. But, personally this is getting to be a little much. Has anyone experienced this at their schools? And are there any conservatives out there that can say they are not like this? Please help me believe you still exist.

We're all nice. Get a job.

[shinerbock]

Haha, I'd never read what this thread was actually about. That being said, try being a conservative on a liberal campus (or message board...) and you'll probably be labled a hate filled racist war monger who slaughters animals.

[Exquisite5]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Haha, I'd never read what this thread was actually about. That being said, try being a conservative on a liberal campus (or message board...) and you'll probably be labled a hate filled racist war monger who slaughters animals.

...and you're sure to be if you act like one.

[Rudey]

How is the government "creating" a right an action that small government would undertake? I've never quite understood this. And conservatives don't believe the government should simply finance highways and not have any other roles in the lives of its citizens. Those are those people that don't get elected but are proud of some lady who writes idiot books.

-Rudey

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Exquisite5

...and you're sure to be if you act like one.

Yeah, I guess not liking rap music and being against affirmative action is doing just that...

[ann.coulter2]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

I checked quite a few dictionaries, including Mirriam-Webster Collegiate, which defines liberalism as:

a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.

and the Random House Unabridged, which defines liberalism as:

political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.

Two examples of liberals defining liberalism.

Liberals say "individual" but mean "group". I.E. the poor, the workers, the elderly, the blacks, etc. One of their Bibles is "It takes a village to raise a child" by HC, and village means government (preferably Federal Govt.)

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by ann.coulter2

Two examples of liberals defining liberalism.

Liberals say "individual" but mean "group". I.E. the poor, the workers, the elderly, the blacks, etc. One of their Bibles is "It takes a village to raise a child" by HC, and village means government (preferably Federal Govt.)

Hi GA-Beta, how are you today?

and shinerbock, it's just as hard being a liberal at a conservative school.