Hazing. Is it necessary?

shinerbock · #1 08-17-2006, 07:33 PM

National GLO's are killing the greek system. I understand some of their obligations, but it'd be nice if we could somehow distribute the liability in order to allow local groups to act more as their own entity.

macallan25 · #2 08-17-2006, 07:40 PM

I hate nationals

Kevin · #3 08-17-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

National GLO's are killing the greek system. I understand some of their obligations, but it'd be nice if we could somehow distribute the liability in order to allow local groups to act more as their own entity.

Not really. My chapter operates on a campus where many other groups do haze, and they haze pretty hard. It's part of the culture here in Oklahoma, and it's what kids expect when they come through Rush.

On one hand, we do let them know that we don't haze. On the other hand, pledging is still no picnic. We follow the rules, we keep them busy, and I absolutely feel that they earn their letters while developing a strong appreciation for our chapter, and the organization at large.

Without hazing, our chapter does pretty well on a campus where hazing is (or at least was when I was there) the norm.

It's absolutely true that hazing works. Fortunately, so do other things. Paintballing, ropes courses, sports, all of those things bring those classes together.

We're still very selective, we put plenty of guys into campus leadership positions, do well in intramurals, Greek Week, etc. We do it without hazing though, in any way shape or form. Anything that the pledge marshal does is vetted through our hazing policy.

So does hazing work? Sure. Is it absolutely necessary? Not from what I've seen.

macallan25 · #4 08-17-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Not really. My chapter operates on a campus where many other groups do haze, and they haze pretty hard. It's part of the culture here in Oklahoma, and it's what kids expect when they come through Rush.

On one hand, we do let them know that we don't haze. On the other hand, pledging is still no picnic. We follow the rules, we keep them busy, and I absolutely feel that they earn their letters while developing a strong appreciation for our chapter, and the organization at large.

Without hazing, our chapter does pretty well on a campus where hazing is (or at least was when I was there) the norm.

It's absolutely true that hazing works. Fortunately, so do other things. Paintballing, ropes courses, sports, all of those things bring those classes together.

We're still very selective, we put plenty of guys into campus leadership positions, do well in intramurals, Greek Week, etc. We do it without hazing though, in any way shape or form. Anything that the pledge marshal does is vetted through our hazing policy.

I am pretty sure hazing is pretty non-existent at OU. FIJI does pretty hard, but that is about it as far as I know. SAE doesn't at all. They do house cleans and that is it.

...I was also told that Sigma Nu is one of the worst houses on campus. It may have not been like that when you were there. But it is now.

Kevin · #5 08-17-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I am pretty sure hazing is pretty non-existent at OU. FIJI does pretty hard, but that is about it as far as I know. SAE doesn't at all. They do house cleans and that is it.

...I was also told that Sigma Nu is one of the worst houses on campus. It may have not been like that when you were there. But it is now.

I didn't go to OU.

I went to Central Oklahoma. Enrollment there is about 15,000. There are six fraternities, average size is probably around 35. The guys at OU should be doing a little better in the future. The alums just dumped about 1.5 million into the house, it's pretty nice. A few good rushes, and they'll be back. They have the financial resources to compete with anyone.

EE-BO · #6 08-17-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I am pretty sure hazing is pretty non-existent at OU. FIJI does pretty hard, but that is about it as far as I know. SAE doesn't at all. They do house cleans and that is it.

When you say hazing is pretty non-existent, do you mean in terms of hazing as defined by law or hazing in terms of what someone Greek might think? (which in itself can vary greatly)

Just wanted to clarify and ask all who post here to please indicate how you define hazing since it will help all to understand where posters are coming from.

macallan25 · #7 08-17-2006, 11:37 PM

I would say someone who is Greek might think. I'm sure you know what that probobly entails.....especially being at UGA and Texas.

EE-BO · #8 08-17-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I would say someone who is Greek might think. I'm sure you know what that probobly entails.....especially being at UGA and Texas.

DeltAlum · #9 08-17-2006, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

...I was also told that Sigma Nu is one of the worst houses on campus. It may have not been like that when you were there. But it is now.

One of the things that most of us agree on -- or at least used to -- is that it's really bad form to trash talk another persons fraternity, sorority or chapter thereof.

PhrozenGod01 · #10 08-18-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

One of the things that most of us agree on -- or at least used to -- is that it's really bad form to trash talk another persons fraternity, sorority or chapter thereof.

I still agree on that. It just makes you look bad, especially if you were just "told" about someone else's opinion. It really flushes away any kind of intelligence or credibility you may have once had. Most problems in any Greek system come from uneducated gossipers who don't know when to stop yapping.

macallan25 · #11 08-18-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhrozenGod01

I still agree on that. It just makes you look bad, especially if you were just "told" about someone else's opinion. It really flushes away any kind of intelligence or credibility you may have once had. Most problems in any Greek system come from uneducated gossipers who don't know when to stop yapping.

Hey, Minnesota, I wasn't gossiping....its a fact. I live in Texas, go to UT, and know plenty of people at OU. I am pretty well informed and have visited there plenty of times. KTSnake didn't even go there.....so it really doesn't matter.

.....explain to me how talking about a shi**y chapter at a particular school "flushes away my intelligence." I am plenty "educated", but thanks though. I don't make blanket statements about places that I have no idea about.

macallan25 · #12 08-18-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

One of the things that most of us agree on -- or at least used to -- is that it's really bad form to trash talk another persons fraternity, sorority or chapter thereof.

I really don't care. Sigma Nu at OU is horrible. Kind of like DKE here at Texas......which is awful too. If someone gets butthurt over me talking about the bad chapters at different schools.......then they need to seriously grow a pair.

Sorry, but I am not one to say , "oh......well......some chapters are good in their own respects. Each chapter on campus is better in some ways than others."

....bullshit. The bad chapters are bad. All-around bad.

Besides all of this....I wasn't trash talking his fraternity. Sigma Nu is pretty badass at a couple big SEC schools if I am not mistaken. I know they are one of the tops at Ole Miss.

Kevin · #13 08-18-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I really don't care. Sigma Nu at OU is horrible. Kind of like DKE here at Texas......which is awful too. If someone gets butthurt over me talking about the bad chapters at different schools.......then they need to seriously grow a pair.

Sorry, but I am not one to say , "oh......well......some chapters are good in their own respects. Each chapter on campus is better in some ways than others."

....bullshit. The bad chapters are bad. All-around bad.

Besides all of this....I wasn't trash talking his fraternity. Sigma Nu is pretty badass at a couple big SEC schools if I am not mistaken (allthough I may be.)

I haven't been down to the OU chapter in a couple of years. They were a good bunch of guys. The house has a hell of a lot of history behind it (1, maybe 2 Heisman winners), and a hell of a lot of wealthy alums. They were definitely top tier until they were brought down by (amazingly) an incident which would have been averted had the brothers at the time been practicing a little risk management.

No offense taken though, if you want to judge on numbers alone, they could be better. I will tell you though -- the guys I know from that chapter are solid guys, and because of the alum support, they are all very well connected.

If nothing else, they serve as a reminder as to how it's very difficult to get to the top, and very easy to crash to the bottom. As I said though, they really have been clawing their way back up the ladder.

macallan25 · #14 08-19-2006, 12:29 AM

No, I agree with you. SAE had it happen to them too at OU. If I am not mistaken they had a little incident a while back that hurt them severely for a long time. Took them a few years to get back up there.

DeltAlum · #15 08-19-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I really don't care. Sigma Nu at OU is horrible. Kind of like DKE here at Texas......which is awful too. If someone gets butthurt over me talking about the bad chapters at different schools.......then they need to seriously grow a pair.

So much for my concept of the "Southern Gentleman."

By the way, our son's freshman year suitemate at OU is a Sigma Nu. He's a great kid, a National Merit Scholar with a dual major in Engineering and Music Performance and nephew of some really good friends of ours from Denver.

So, here's an example of my particular "pair." I don't think you know crap about Sigma Nu at OU except what you may have heard second hand. In any event it's only your opinion, so under the circumstances, cram it and show a little class and respect for your fellow posters.

Oh, and hazing of any kind is still illegal.