Katrina, and the UN

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Do all people have free will? I think yes -- and yes, that's a generalization. All of us of able mind and body have free will. That means that we can either take advantage of opportunities, or we can fail to. Any reason given for failing to take advantage of an opportunity is nothing more than an excuse.

How many of the unemployed people of New Orleans are still unemployed even when construction firms are bringing in as many laborers as they can possibly scrounge up from other states?

Let's say my mom had me when she was 15 and addicted to crack, and has been abusive or absent since then. We live in the projects and I never finished high school and can't read, because when I was a kid my mom resented me more than anything and didn't give a shit if I went to school. Most of the time I was hungry, and I might have some form of mental illness and possibly diabetes, but nobody ever took me to the doctor so to you and everyone, I have "able mind and body." Now I'm 20. I have no education or skills. Please tell me what opportunities I have.

It's all well and good to talk about opportunities. You and I have had plenty of them and have taken advantage. That doesn't mean everybody has been so fortunate.

Here's what I don't understand, though. Say your home and everything around it was destroyed by Katrina and then you rebuild. Is it reasonable to expect any assistance if your home and everything around it is destroyed by a hurricane again in the future? Even I would say "no" to that.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Let's say my mom had me when she was 15 and addicted to crack, and has been abusive or absent since then. We live in the projects and I never finished high school and can't read, because when I was a kid my mom resented me more than anything and didn't give a shit if I went to school. Most of the time I was hungry, and I might have some form of mental illness and possibly diabetes, but nobody ever took me to the doctor so to you and everyone, I have "able mind and body." Now I'm 20. I have no education or skills. Please tell me what opportunities I have.

It's all well and good to talk about opportunities. You and I have had plenty of them and have taken advantage. That doesn't mean everybody has been so fortunate.

Here's what I don't understand, though. Say your home and everything around it was destroyed by Katrina and then you rebuild. Is it reasonable to expect any assistance if your home and everything around it is destroyed by a hurricane again in the future? Even I would say "no" to that.

The first two paragraphs were very REAL and valid arguments. The same could be considered around the coastal areas of other US States...they rebuild to a higher level of flood resistance...

[shinerbock]

Plenty of people overcome obstacles and hardships on their way to success.

Regarding New Orleans, it is a completely different situation involving rebuilding. Much of the city expects to be rebuilt by the government, which is absurd. It is a much different situation from a hurricane striking the Florida panhandle, where people rebuild for themselves, because they have the ability to do so.

[f8nacn]

Are those sections of the government that are expected by rebuilt by the government, government controlled land. The last I heard was sections of the town were being sold to independent developers, which in turn, would result in those who lost their homes during Katrina wouldn't be able to afford to come back to those areas anyway.

[shinerbock]

Well I think people expecting their government housing to be rebuilt is a little ridiculous.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Let's say my mom had me when she was 15 and addicted to crack, and has been abusive or absent since then. We live in the projects andI never finished high school and can't read, because when I was a kid my mom resented me more than anything and didn't give a shit if I went to school. Most of the time I was hungry, and I might have some form of mental illness and possibly diabetes, but nobody ever took me to the doctor so to you and everyone, I have "able mind and body." Now I'm 20. I have no education or skills. Please tell me what opportunities I have.

I've taken the excuses and bolded them. I've taken the things that are 100% your hypothetical fault and underlined them. In this situation, it was your own decision not to go to school. It was your own decision not to read. You were presented with the information that you mom was an effup, and you did nothing to make sure the same thing didn't happen to you.

Even so, at the age of 20, Job Corps (link below) is available to you.

http://www.jobcorps.dol.gov/

Remedial education and a GED are also available. It may not be the most comfortable and easy thing to do getting out of that hole, but it's completely possible.

It's all well and good to talk about opportunities. You and I have had plenty of them and have taken advantage. That doesn't mean everybody has been so fortunate.

True. I was just looking up my best friend from grade school on the public access court docket system (in Oklahoma, the courts take public access to a whole new level). The guy was on drugs in HS, I knew his sister Overdosed and died. He's currently involved in a simultaneous divorce and paternity action, but to his credit, he's not in prison. The guys parents were loaded, and he definitely wasn't dumb. So yeah, even the 'fortunate' choose poverty. And I'm sure he's got a terrific sob story as well.. his siblings were on drugs, his parents got divorced, etc. etc.

-- all excuses.

Here's what I don't understand, though. Say your home and everything around it was destroyed by Katrina and then you rebuild. Is it reasonable to expect any assistance if your home and everything around it is destroyed by a hurricane again in the future? Even I would say "no" to that.

If I owned a home, I'd sure as hell have homeowner's insurance. You're crazy not to. If I lived below sea level, or on the coast, I'd sure as hell have flood insurance. Living in Oklahoma, I'm going to carry tornado insurance.

I don't "expect" help from anyone. I don't think it's reasonable to "expect" people to give me things for free. I know that a lot of folks do expect these things, but as I said before, if you go through life expecting someone else to provide for you, eventually, you'll be let down.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

If I owned a home, I'd sure as hell have homeowner's insurance. You're crazy not to. If I lived below sea level, or on the coast, I'd sure as hell have flood insurance. Living in Oklahoma, I'm going to carry tornado insurance.

I don't "expect" help from anyone. I don't think it's reasonable to "expect" people to give me things for free. I know that a lot of folks do expect these things, but as I said before, if you go through life expecting someone else to provide for you, eventually, you'll be let down.

And let us remember that there are people in the United States who are attempting to make it, not relying on the government for anything, yet those people are making minimum wage (which is a laughing stock) and they are barely making ends meet. They aren't "expecting" anything from anyone, yet they are STILL STRUGGLING to make ends meet. I know, what we would call, "wealthy" people who are still struggling to make ends met. What is wealth and prosperity if knowing at the end of the month or in between pay cycles one only has .05 to his name, yet they are the ones driving the luxury - overly expensive vehicles, living in the best neighborhoods?

There is a struggle on every economic class - it is not just the poorer than poor - its every day people who are working to make ends meet daily!

[shinerbock]

I imagine some of the things that happened during Katrina were WORSE than how the media portrayed them.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I imagine some of the things that happened during Katrina were WORSE than how the media portrayed them.

I don't...and that comes from people I know who have relocated to my area and that I actually have had the opportunity to work with...

[shinerbock]

I'm sure it does, but I imagine it depends who you talk to. My two fraternity brothers from NOLA said it was disgusting how the people acted.

[f8nacn]

I guess everyone has their own interpretations and experiences...

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by f8nacn

And let us remember that there are people in the United States who are attempting to make it, not relying on the government for anything, yet those people are making minimum wage (which is a laughing stock) and they are barely making ends meet. They aren't "expecting" anything from anyone, yet they are STILL STRUGGLING to make ends meet. I know, what we would call, "wealthy" people who are still struggling to make ends met. What is wealth and prosperity if knowing at the end of the month or in between pay cycles one only has .05 to his name, yet they are the ones driving the luxury - overly expensive vehicles, living in the best neighborhoods?

There is a struggle on every economic class - it is not just the poorer than poor - its every day people who are working to make ends meet daily!

These people you know aren't what would I would wealthy at all. They sound like people I know that live beyond their means and run up credit card dept on multiple cards with multiple banks.....and they sure as hell aren't prosperous.

[shinerbock]

Minimum wage will probably soon be raised to over 7 dollars. Now that is a laughing stock.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by macallan25

These people you know aren't what would I would wealthy at all. They sound like people I know that live beyond their means and run up credit card dept on multiple cards with multiple banks.....and they sure as hell aren't prosperous.

Yet appearances can be deceptive (that is my point)...There are people who definitely have the fine cars, the big houses, the name brand clothes, and maybe even an impressive social calendar, yet they still remain in state where they are just making do.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by f8nacn

And let us remember that there are people in the United States who are attempting to make it, not relying on the government for anything, yet those people are making minimum wage (which is a laughing stock) and they are barely making ends meet. They aren't "expecting" anything from anyone, yet they are STILL STRUGGLING to make ends meet. I know, what we would call, "wealthy" people who are still struggling to make ends met. What is wealth and prosperity if knowing at the end of the month or in between pay cycles one only has .05 to his name, yet they are the ones driving the luxury - overly expensive vehicles, living in the best neighborhoods?

There is a struggle on every economic class - it is not just the poorer than poor - its every day people who are working to make ends meet daily!

What is your point? That we all have to do stuff to get stuff? Is that what passes for a 'struggle' these days? It's a dramatic as heck word. I still contend that the very fact that someone is working a minimum wage job is their own fault. You don't end up as an adult with no marketable skills without having any input into the situation yourself. It was an option to finish high school and then go to some college/votech program to learn marketable skills. There may have been an apprenticeship position somewhere. Job Corps is available. Yeah, I guess they all require you to do stuff in order to get stuff and thus "struggle," but really.. so what? Am I supposed to feel sorry for some idiot who chose to drop out of high school and have babies thinking that their job at White Castle would provide?

And actually, if they weren't taking care of things themselves, e.g., owning a car, having flood insurance, etc., then they were relying on someone else. New Orleans has flooded before. Everyone who lives there knows or should know that the levee system is inadequate for some storms. Everyone knew or should have known that such a storm was a decent possibility. Therefore, if they weren't prepared for the eventuality of a storm, then they were expecting someone else to be prepared for them. There is no truth to your statement that they weren't dependant on someone else. Show me one minimum wage worker that isn't also receiving some sort of government benefit -- TANF, WIC, Section 8 Housing, etc.