Religion/Theology

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I've decided it's worthless, because anything I say, sources or not, will be taken out of context or twisted into something I didn't say. Plus, faith is a subjective matter. You can argue forever and not get anywhere, and I don't have time for that.

I'm not here to argue against, mock or disparage your beliefs. I know you won't believe that, but seriously I'd rather discuss this like an adult. I feel like you're copping out here, rather than addressing the actual evidence I've presented, but I can understand the 'message board mentality' and not wanting to fight uphill against that.

However, as someone who is not a practicing Christian (and instead has instituted a Buddhist-based ethos), I do feel like I should have a chance to 'defend' (as it were) the hundreds of millions who practice Buddhism and disagree completely with your characterization of it as something less than a religion - it would be somewhat odd that the fourth-largest religion in the world is, in fact, not a religion at all. Your inference that Buddhism and Christianity can work together, which stems from this belief, is not nearly as 'troublesome' (I'm not here to tell people what to believe), but at the same time there are fairly distinctive differences that I can't see reconciling. Help me if you'd like - or continue to abase others' faiths, then hide behind the aegis of "no one respects my viewpoint" or "I dont' have time." Personally, I KNOW how much my time is worth, and I'm willing to put in the time - and I'm willing to listen, if you can provide points above and beyond an opinion article or 'theology people' you've spoken with.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I do feel like I should have a chance to 'defend' (as it were) the hundreds of millions who practice Buddhism and disagree completely with your characterization of it as something less than a religion - it would be somewhat odd that the fourth-largest religion in the world is, in fact, not a religion at all. Your inference that Buddhism and Christianity can work together, which stems from this belief, is not nearly as 'troublesome' (I'm not here to tell people what to believe), but at the same time there are fairly distinctive differences that I can't see reconciling. Help me if you'd like - or continue to abase others' faiths, then hide behind the aegis of "no one respects my viewpoint" or "I dont' have time." Personally, I KNOW how much my time is worth, and I'm willing to put in the time - and I'm willing to listen, if you can provide points above and beyond an opinion article or 'theology people' you've spoken with.

This is exactly the problem - I never said that Buddhism is less then a religion. I said it wasn't a religion, but I didn't say it was less then one. It's like me saying that the Chess Club isn't a fraternity. That doesn't imply that the Chess Club isn't any more or less important then a fraternity, it just isn't one. According to the Western (including the US, where we live) definition of "religion" Buddhism does not fit, because it lacks a deity or creator. It's a seperate (not greater or less) thing. And before someone says it, I realize that Buddhism is an Eastern world thing, and that's why it doesn't fit the Western defintion, but that's exactly my point. I would like to know the exact translation for "religion" in Chinese, because I'm sure the word has different implications and definitions then it does in English.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

This is exactly the problem - I never said that Buddhism is less then a religion. I said it wasn't a religion, but I didn't say it was less then one. It's like me saying that the Chess Club isn't a fraternity. That doesn't imply that the Chess Club isn't any more or less important then a fraternity, it just isn't one. According to the Western (including the US, where we live) definition of "religion" Buddhism does not fit, because it lacks a deity or creator. It's a seperate (not greater or less) thing. And before someone says it, I realize that Buddhism is an Eastern world thing, and that's why it doesn't fit the Western defintion, but that's exactly my point. I would like to know the exact translation for "religion" in Chinese, because I'm sure the word has different implications and definitions then it does in English.

re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.

1.
- - a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
- - b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
----

I think Buddhism fits all of these (dictionary) definitions. Also, you should know, then, that "Creator" should be able to have "higher order or authority" substituted in for a successful defintion - and Buddhism fits that definition as well. Just because there is no single embodiment or 'named' creator, does not mean that the higher authority or power is not a part of the religion.

I realize COMPLETELY that you're relying on the so-called 'Western' definition from a Theology class standpoint - that is NOT the only definition, nor does 'Western' imply that 'all those in the west hold it' - it's merely the NOMENCLATURE, used to create two dichotomous definitions ('Eastern' v. 'Western') that are NOT the be-all/end-all of definition of religion. You know this, but choose the definition that best suits your argument, while ignoring the rest (the Fallacy of False Dilemma).

I invite you to use the 'inclusive' definition, instead, or even the 'Substantive' definition - I think by implying 'Western' is anything more than a phrase and not a comprehensive definition, you're mangling terminology.

[DSTRen13]

I consider myself to be a Unitarian Universalist, although I don't belong to any particular congregation at the moment. Since that can encompass a broad range of beliefs (hence the appeal and the point - I want my religious system to encourage people to question and explore rather than dictating answers), I'll be more specific ... I am a scientific pantheist; God, for me, is the forces of nature, the universe itself. That's what I find awe-inspiring and that's where I find God.