Shooting at Northern Illinois University

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by bohdi

Drolfille, my apologies for not engaging in the predetermined protocols to introduce myself to the forum. I'll have to go back and rectify that, but you missed the point. I get yours. Your not comfortable with people being armed around you period.

No, I'm not comfortable with those who aren't highly trained being armed around me. Soldiers? Fine. Police? Sure. Your average college student who can't be bothered to renew his driver's license is not likely to stay up on his FOID card either.

The quote button was not my friend 100% of the time, which is why I posted the way I did in this case. Besides, that makes reading a bit more tedious for others.
"Being a person holding a gun was her responsibility." Eh, you make it sound like she got her experience/responsibility because she volunteered.

No, she has the responsibility because she chose to volunteer for a position that was given to her based, in part, on her experience in handling a firearm.

I'm not silly enough to think (nor did I state or imply) that if I stood to shoot at an armed gunperson (especially if they were still in FRONT of me) they wouldn't look at me and not try and take me out. They have already determined that I am among their group of victims - If I am faced with the choice of A) getting shot at while trying to run away (50% chance) or B) getting shot at while shooting at the gunman (50%), I'll take B. Regardless you do not have to stand to take a shot at someone. That's why people are taught to shoot prone (on their bellies) and in a kneeling position. If one were to crouch and lower their profile - which many did in this case, that affords you *some* albiet not great cover to conceal your intent. Be it running or pulling a weapon. I disagree with your position.

Shooting at a gunman makes you a target in return. The more cover you use, the less visibility you will have, the more likely someone could run between you and the gunman, etc. Your chances are not "50/50" so if you base your decision making off of those odds, you're starting from a flawed standpoint.

I'd say the chance of someone bursting into a classroom and firing on students is increasing by the day. Criminals and whackos are oppourtunists, they take the path of least resistence.

If your odds are so tiny than even doubling them doesn't make it a viable concern. "Criminals" don't engage in this sort of shooting spree. "Whackos" as you classily put it, don't think about the number of guns the people they want to kill have. Whatever purpose the NIU guy, or the Virginia Tech guy, had in his head, it wasn't "I'll shoot them because they don't have guns." It is much more likely to be, "I'll get them back, they deserve it."

Why do you think you don't hear about many places people are actually armed are attacked outside of war zones?

Police officers are never attacked? Shot at first? Gun stores are never attacked? Crime doesn't exist in Texas?

This knucklehead still carried out his attack because he knew the police weren't actually sitting in the class room. He knew the odds were in his favor, being a prior student. He knew all the students were unarmed and he'd meet no resistence. Why do you think people attack malls? Same reasons. Why do you think people attack churches? Same reasons.

Not this sort of suicide/homicide they don't. Someone disturbed to this level is not thinking like that and they expect to die at the end of it. The man who attacked the churches in Colorado had a previous connection there... there was some reason, in his head, why they deserved it.

I don't know about 1 in a million, but with those odds you better start playing the lottery.

How many college students are there? How many have been shot by a gunman. How many have been in a classroom with a gunman? You might be better off playing the lottery than betting on being in that situation, but either one's a stupid bet.

That didn't help everyone. The only thing that made this less worse is the gunman taking himself out early because he didn't want to face the consequences.

Nothing will help everyone. If everyone in that class room had a gun, people still would have died. Maybe more, maybe less. This sort of gunman usually takes his own life or has the police do it for him.

So by your thinking if I tried to punch you in the face, you'd let me. That's basically what your saying here, it's the same thing. If it is that's fine, I just want to clarify.

No. I'm not a pacifist. I'd stop you if possible, and if not, injure you as much as necessary and/or possible while screaming for help. Fists are not guns.

Glad to see your willing to allow the non-traditional and minority students to carry, a compromise then We agree.

Where did I say "minority students" could carry? You're not actually reading what I'm typing any more. Allowing weapons as a general rule on a college campus means that not only non-traditional, ex-military students can carry, but that Joe Student can as well. So nix that.

I didn't mean to say I trusted the Police, lol. Nice catch, but if you read the rest of what I wrote, I clearly don't hold the position that Police are very accurate, any more so than an every day citizen with a permit and weapon would be. What I said is that they missed quite a bit and that's been documented. If the Police stand as good of a chance missing a shooter as well as a regular citizen who practices and carries, I'd still rather have a citizen being in that room trying to shoot back and potentially missing. That risk exists either way and is not exclusive to private citizens carrying weapons.

So you don't trust the police or you only trust them as much as you trust a private citzen?

So, anyone who shoots a gun is, on average, highly inaccurate. The police, trained in how to enter and handle a situation where a gunman is in a building with civilians, can control their numbers and their method. The average armed civilian has no training nor control over the police or other civilians. If they're all highly inaccurate, I'd rather have the police handle it thank you. Why add another gun firing into the mix? Or two guns? Or a 300 person lecture hall full of them?

Maybe it's just that I don't live in fear of people walking into my classroom and shooting me. I don't feel a need to carry a weapon around wherever I go. And sorry shinerbock, too much practice on line by line quoting on my part.