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Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS
I never said that it was not contingent upon God's grace but we have to seek that grace and are testified by faith.
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Okay, getting off topic here, but as long as we are: The Christian tradition in which I was brought up and of which I am still part says that we cannot even seek God's grace without first receiving God's grace. In other words, God's grace seeks us, and we respond. We cannot seek it out on our own.
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Being saved means that we have been given God's grace and are therefore expected to change our lives accordingly.
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I understand that, but as I said, it's a way of expressing it that is foreign to me. I understand exactly what it means, just like I might understand French or German. But very, very few Presbyterians I have come in contact with speak in terms of "being saved," and if you ask one when he or she was saved, the answer is likely to be (as my grandmother did in fact answer) "when the foundations of the world were laid," or at the least "on Calvary 2000 years ago."
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If you overthink anything it won't make sense.
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I'm not overthinking anything at all (although it is arguable that as one of God's Frozen People and a lawyer, I'm prone to overthink anything). I said at the outset that I thought I understood the meaning of the phrase, but that the phrase itself doesn't make much sense to me because the phraseology -- the manner in which the thought is expressed -- is foreign to me. In other words, I pretty much know what the words mean, but I would never express it that way, partially because I just don't talk that way and partially because I would be more used to a different emphasis -- "kept" rather than "keeping." That's why it sounds odd to me, that's why the phrase made me stop to try and figure out exactly what was meant, and that's why I'm not sure I would agree with the sentiment it conveys.
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