Tent Talk & "Bottom-Tier" Houses

[sdtennisgal]

It's pretty simple. If sorority members act catty, immature and mean, they will attract catty, immature and mean PNMs.

Get rid of (really in practice, not just in theory) the practice of taking little sisters or brothers (that is, women from sororities taking guys from the fraternities and vice versa). I've never heard of this making a Greek system stronger, just making the drama stronger.[/QUOTE]

1. (with the catty, immature and mean sisters): Unfortunately, those types of girls can put on a good face during recruitment, then "turn" nice girls once they are new members. I think we have all seen that.

2. Full disclosure: Back in the day, I was a Little Sister. On the positive side, I got to be friends with a number of girls from other houses via the Little Sister group, and a number of independant girls who chose not to go the sorority route. Our group was very laid back (...reflected the fraternity) and it really wasn't a "girlfriend's club." HOWEVER, particularly during my last two years, I saw how negative it could be, especially the competition to be named a Little Sister to the most elite fraternities on campus. One fraternity, in particular, was particularly cruel in the their process (i.e. announcing the new Little Sisters with all the girls competing for spots present at a dance...so they had to hang around for the rest of the night when they didn't get it in.)

We used to have a few weeknight "exchanges" just with other sororities (...no boys allowed) each semester that were very informal ("Hat Party with the DG's!" "Pizza Night wit ADPi") where everyone sat around and just chatted. Because they counted for participation points, we got good turn out, and because there was free food, the out of house girls (...including me my senior year) tended to swing by.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by sdtennisgal

2. Full disclosure: Back in the day, I was a Little Sister. On the positive side, I got to be friends with a number of girls from other houses via the Little Sister group, and a number of independant girls who chose not to go the sorority route. Our group was very laid back (...reflected the fraternity) and it really wasn't a "girlfriend's club." HOWEVER, particularly during my last two years, I saw how negative it could be, especially the competition to be named a Little Sister to the most elite fraternities on campus. One fraternity, in particular, was particularly cruel in the their process (i.e. announcing the new Little Sisters with all the girls competing for spots present at a dance...so they had to hang around for the rest of the night when they didn't get it in.)

We used to have a few weeknight "exchanges" just with other sororities (...no boys allowed) each semester that were very informal ("Hat Party with the DG's!" "Pizza Night wit ADPi") where everyone sat around and just chatted. Because they counted for participation points, we got good turn out, and because there was free food, the out of house girls (...including me my senior year) tended to swing by.

What I'm talking about is not what you're talking about - not the organized Little Sister groups. I'm talking about where Freddy Fraternity asks Patti Pledge to be his "little sister." Freddy's fraternity and Patti's sorority have nothing really to do with it - it doesn't align them in any way. Freddy's brothers may have "little sisters" from totally different sororities.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And putting it into practice. Saying "I have friends in all the sororities" kind of falls flat when PNMs see ABC sisters giving the death looks to XYZ sisters at parties.

It's pretty simple. If sorority members act catty, immature and mean, they will attract catty, immature and mean PNMs.

When negativity abounds, good people have to call it out or the negativity will grow. It's very much like political campaigning, you either get in the mud with the pigs or choose to stay out of the sty. Even with choosing to avoid getting in the mud, whenever mud is slung some sticks on the target. I would rather see astroturf pro-Panhellenic positivity than none at all because the alternative is far worse.

When you have gigantic house totals that just keep going up, then ALL of the houses have catty, immature, mean members to some extent. Staying on message, and a positive message, is the only way to combat that either internally or externally and stay true to our principles and values.

[Pearly]

I think that since one of the more personal college gossip websites has gone offline the tent talk and maliciousness will calm down a bit and hopefully girls will have more of an open mind about all the chapters

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Pearly

I think that since one of the more personal college gossip websites has gone offline the tent talk and maliciousness will calm down a bit and hopefully girls will have more of an open mind about all the chapters

This is the funniest thing that I've heard in a long time. Tent talk and less than open minds about all of the chapters have been in existence well before the advent of the internet.

I hope you're right, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Other things that can be done to relieve tent talk: REVISE A TOO HIGH TOTAL. For the love of all that's holy. If your total is 150 and no one has been over 110 in 5 years, of course that's going to contribute to a bunch of worried and stressed out girls - and stress coming out in non-Panhellenic ways. Thankfully NPC has been more on the ball about this in recent years.

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

When you have gigantic house totals that just keep going up, then ALL of the houses have catty, immature, mean members to some extent. Staying on message, and a positive message, is the only way to combat that either internally or externally and stay true to our principles and values.

Yes. I think when most of the chapters on campus are under total, the Panhellenic environment becomes very competitive year-round as chapters are vying for PNMs via COB. It's easier for chapters to be nice to each other when they each feel secure in their individual situations.

However, I think members of the non-Greek and fraternity community are contributing to tent talk just as much, if not more, than the sororities themselves. From my collegiate experience, the most blatant examples of PNMs being told "these chapters suck, and these chapters are the only ones you should consider" came from fraternity men talking to freshman over the summer or in their first days on campus.

I think it's natural for PNMs who don't know any better to ask what chapters are good to join - after all, they just went through the college selection process where they took into account prestige of university, tuition costs, "Fit", etc.

Things that I think help:
1) Holding recruitment right when PNMs get to campus, so they have minimal time to absorb tent talk
2) Discouraging talking, texting, etc. between recruitment parties (tricky though it is)
3) Coordinating with IFC to encourage an "All Greek Together" policy - I don't know if this would mean a carrot or stick approach, or maybe both. I'm sure plenty of fraternities would like the sorority women to keep their mouths shut about reputation, too.
4) Better "expectations" programming during the orientation process. There was another thread about adjusting PNMs expectations, and maybe it could help.
5) Perhaps the Greek Advisor could make a concerted effort to subtly "talk up" the chapters that typically perform less well during recruitment to the PNMs. Or maybe present a little information about each chapter that shows each group in an amazing light - highlighting awards, involvement in on campus activities, fundraising totals, etc.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Yes. I think when most of the chapters on campus are under total, the Panhellenic environment becomes very competitive year-round as chapters are vying for PNMs via COB. It's easier for chapters to be nice to each other when they each feel secure in their individual situations.

However, I think members of the non-Greek and fraternity community are contributing to tent talk just as much, if not more, than the sororities themselves. From my collegiate experience, the most blatant examples of PNMs being told "these chapters suck, and these chapters are the only ones you should consider" came from fraternity men talking to freshman over the summer or in their first days on campus.

I think it's natural for PNMs who don't know any better to ask what chapters are good to join - after all, they just went through the college selection process where they took into account prestige of university, tuition costs, "Fit", etc.

Things that I think help:
1) Holding recruitment right when PNMs get to campus, so they have minimal time to absorb tent talk
2) Discouraging talking, texting, etc. between recruitment parties (tricky though it is)
3) Coordinating with IFC to encourage an "All Greek Together" policy - I don't know if this would mean a carrot or stick approach, or maybe both. I'm sure plenty of fraternities would like the sorority women to keep their mouths shut about reputation, too.
4) Better "expectations" programming during the orientation process. There was another thread about adjusting PNMs expectations, and maybe it could help.
5) Perhaps the Greek Advisor could make a concerted effort to subtly "talk up" the chapters that typically perform less well during recruitment to the PNMs. Or maybe present a little information about each chapter that shows each group in an amazing light - highlighting awards, involvement in on campus activities, fundraising totals, etc.

I agree with a lot of what you've said.

I don't think most people would know about this, but a few months before I started at USC, a girl posted on our College Confidential page asking about what the sororities were like, and a former, non-Greek SC student (female, and proud to admit that she's completely anti-Greek) posted reputations and generalizations about each and every Greek house, including a tier structure. Nothing good to say about any house.

I feel like, in the internet age, the tent talk happens the moment a girl chooses to go Greek and go NPC. I remember discovering GC and deciding that I wanted to rush. I was leaving on a family vacation the next day, and I remember googling "USC sororities" at some point on the trip. After the USC pages, up came a bunch of CC pages where people ranked the groups; GreekRank (please do not let this degenerate into another GR talk; I've had enough of them lately); and, finally, GC.

Now I really get concerned because my younger sister announced not too long ago that she'd consider rushing in college and she began researching Greek Life at the schools she's going to apply to this fall. Where did she land? GreekRank. It comes up too fast on search results.

It doesn't help that there are a lot of misconceptions about recruitment in general. I remember having a discussion with two girls at orientation. One asked the other, "which houses are you rushing?" To which the first replied with the "top tier" (gah I hate that) sororities at our school. The other said, "oh, same, but also ["upper middle tier" group--hate that, too]." When I said "I think I'm going to go through recruitment as well!" I kind of got that weird look when someone says they're going to do something that seems crazy to others and they dropped the subject. I wanted to say, "no, you're rushing ALL of them." *eyeroll*

This is getting long, so I'll sum it up fast: having gone through recruitment this fall, there was very little "tent talk," because we'd pretty much all heard it from Google before we even showed up on campus.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

This is getting long, so I'll sum it up fast: having gone through recruitment this fall, there was very little "tent talk," because we'd pretty much all heard it from Google before we even showed up on campus.

And you've hit the nail right on the head!

And for some schools like Texas or Alabama local/regional PNMs may already have grown up through high school (or even earlier) with the tent talk firmly in place 'knowing' what the house reputations are however inaccurate they may be. ng before they even know where they are going for college.

[Cheerio]

A school I am familiar with currently has less then ten NPC groups. Over 45 years, campus fluctuated between 7-12 NPC houses. Not all current NPC groups make quota, which continues a long trend. All groups have/had housing. A few groups have disbanded, then recolonized.

It seemed when one group would leave, every other group and the PNMs knew who the next-lesser (for lack of better term) group was; that group was more-than-usually next to leave campus (and this was during a mini-boom in campus sorority membership #s). PNMs just wanted to join the 4-6 popular houses, which meant the other 3-6 didn't make quota and had to COB.

The problem of having half the houses popular/half the houses not-so-popular continues. Is this due to tent talk? Sure. Should rush be held earlier/for a longer time stretch? Yes. But I see reluctance to change on the part of campus fraternal leaders, since their system of choice has 'worked' for decades.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

And you've hit the nail right on the head!

And for some schools like Texas or Alabama local/regional PNMs may already have grown up through high school (or even earlier) with the tent talk firmly in place 'knowing' what the house reputations are however inaccurate they may be. long before they even know where they are going for college.

Yes! I have a friend at Texas who said that she felt so underprepared for recruitment because so many of her fellow rushees literally knew everyone and everything LONG before she even realized she'd be going to Texas. Or probably before she even decided to apply to Texas.

At our school, though, and many others, it's definitely internet.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

5) Perhaps the Greek Advisor could make a concerted effort to subtly "talk up" the chapters that typically perform less well during recruitment to the PNMs.

Depending on the status/popularity of the GA, this could be great or be beyond epic fail. Our GA was so bad that it got to a point where the only thing that all the sororities agreed on was that they hated her guts.

I also don't think holding rush before freshman year/immediately upon campus arrival helps to curb tent talk AT ALL. If it did, then every school who does it would have every chapter at the same amount and no chapters would ever close. If anything, I think tent talk in this situation is 10x worse. You're new to the campus, maybe away from home on your own for the first time and unless you have family or intimate friends at the school, you have NO clue and are apt to take everyone's advice on the same level. I mean, if you hear a cute man from ABC fraternity saying that JKL sorority is full of fat bitches, you may believe it. Whereas if you don't rush until your second semester, and have maybe had a chance to interact with the ABC fraternity and realize that although they're cute they are total douchebags...you're not going to take everything they say as gospel.

I think a lot of the disappointed PNMs are the ones who do join chapters that maybe weren't as popular as they thought, or as they made themselves appear in rush. If they've had a semester at the least to observe, they're not going to get as much of a jolt.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If anything, I think tent talk in this situation is 10x worse. You're new to the campus, maybe away from home on your own for the first time and unless you have family or intimate friends at the school, you have NO clue and are apt to take everyone's advice on the same level. I mean, if you hear a cute man from ABC fraternity saying that JKL sorority is full of fat bitches, you may believe it. Whereas if you don't rush until your second semester, and have maybe had a chance to interact with the ABC fraternity and realize that although they're cute they are total douchebags...you're not going to take everything they say as gospel.

Hrm, maybe this varies from campus to campus, but I felt like enough women went through recruitment at my school with little knowledge of the ranks specifically because recruitment happened right at the beginning of the term (usually started a few days before classes started). Granted, UCLA is a campus where a good portion of women sign up for recruitment in the few days between when they move in to their dorms and Round 1 (easily 20%-30% of PNMs). I could also be over-estimating this population in general.

I used to think the idea of deferred recruitment was absolutely terribly for struggling chapters, but the older I get, the more I understand your exact point. I also understand the great benefit of having time to assess PNMs, both in the social scene and their grades.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

At our school, though, and many others, it's definitely internet.

Yeah we have quite a large out of state population so the internet definitely is a huge influence in tent talk. I get the feeling that the girls at SC who know about the house reps from high school (or earlier) are the ones who have an advantage any way since they have older siblings, cousins or friends they went to school/church/club/tennis/etc with, that are already in houses.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Yeah we have quite a large out of state population so the internet definitely is a huge influence in tent talk. I get the feeling that the girls at SC who know about the house reps from high school (or earlier) are the ones who have an advantage any way since they have older siblings, cousins or friends they went to school/church/club/tennis/etc with, that are already in houses.

Yes, and that also influences tent talk, just a different kind. I'm local, though, and I only found out about how Greek Life works by using the internet. Sorority life wasn't that big a deal around here when my mom was at UCLA in the 70's, and my dad went to SC, but he knew nothing about Greek Life. The most my family knew about sororities was that my uncle went as a date to a Pi Phi formal in the late 60's or early 70's. And that my mom was part of an unsuccessful attempt to colonize my sorority at some point. I also didn't have any relatives who were interested in helping, so it was me making my connections through the internet. I tried to find reliable sources (and I succeeded), but I bet there are a lot of girls who can't/don't care to (which is stupid, not going to deny it, but still).

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Hrm, maybe this varies from campus to campus, but I felt like enough women went through recruitment at my school with little knowledge of the ranks specifically because recruitment happened right at the beginning of the term (usually started a few days before classes started). Granted, UCLA is a campus where a good portion of women sign up for recruitment in the few days between when they move in to their dorms and Round 1 (easily 20%-30% of PNMs). I could also be over-estimating this population in general.

I used to think the idea of deferred recruitment was absolutely terribly for struggling chapters, but the older I get, the more I understand your exact point. I also understand the great benefit of having time to assess PNMs, both in the social scene and their grades.

Your first instinct was right. Spring recruitment = 4 whole months of tent talk. Plus then the boys get into it too. You can put silence rules on the sorority girls, but can't stop the boys from talking. Most deferred recruitment schools have some kind of rule where sorority girls can't talk to PNMs that they don't already know. That puts you right back with the PNM that is the best connected going in to recruitment has a significant advantage. It also leads to dirty rushing.