Intentional Single Preference (ISP) is Bad

[GreekGirley]

The crux of the matter is that PNMs are just not told how quota additions work and that doing an ISP will prevent them from being a quota addition...or even what "quota addition" means and how chapters get them. It is unfortunate and happens every year across the country with an average of about 50% getting what they want and the other 50% being left without a bid.

Bottom line is that if the girl would be THAT unhappy in her 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) choice, then those chapters at the bottom probably know it. I mean, if she feels strongly enough to not even list the group on her pref card?? Come on...you KNOW that chapter has a definite hold on that vibe and will place her way down on the list. Now, that doesn't mean that she won't still get them...but the odds are much more likely that she'll get her 1st choice.

So, what I"m saying is that Greek Life at the schools and the Gamma Chis need to do a better job of telling them WHY it is bad to ISP...not just "don't do it"...because we all know that this generation is one who needs reasons for what they do. They won't typically follow blindly with a recommendation from someone they've not even met until a week before rush starts.

[GreekGirley]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Groups that require their legacies be on their first bid list would release any legacies they couldn't issue bids to before pref so this wouldn't be a problem. If quota is 40 and you have 50 legacies left before prefs, you've gotta release 10 of those legacies. Most chapters would have released them earlier anyway since it's not desireable to have a pledge class full of only legacies.

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Bottom line is that if the girl would be THAT unhappy in her 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) choice, then those chapters at the bottom probably know it. I mean, if she feels strongly enough to not even list the group on her pref card?? Come on...you KNOW that chapter has a definite hold on that vibe and will place her way down on the list. Now, that doesn't mean that she won't still get them...but the odds are much more likely that she'll get her 1st choice.

Just unbelieveable. I am sorry, but this is ABSOLUTELY, COMPLETELY FALSE!!

Please don't spread this kind of inaccurate information around & get any girl's hopes up.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Just unbelieveable. I am sorry, but this is ABSOLUTELY, COMPLETELY FALSE!!

Please don't spread this kind of inaccurate information around & get any girl's hopes up.

Well said ... particularly if the chapter that is choice #2 doesn't usually make quota ..they will move all the way to the bottom of their bid lists and the PNM who hasn't matched to choice #1 will match to choice #2 when choice #1 reaches quota and PNM will never be in position to be QA to choice #1.

As was once said .. if you'd rather eat glass then take a bid from a chapter DO NOT list it on your preference card.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Bottom line is that if the girl would be THAT unhappy in her 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) choice, then those chapters at the bottom probably know it. I mean, if she feels strongly enough to not even list the group on her pref card?? Come on...you KNOW that chapter has a definite hold on that vibe and will place her way down on the list. Now, that doesn't mean that she won't still get them...but the odds are much more likely that she'll get her 1st choice.

Not necessarily. You're assuming that these women are going into their 2nd or 3rd choice chapters and acting like little brats rather than being mannerly and polite. It's possible for a PNM to be engaged in conversation with the person rushing her and the PNM still not want to be a member of that chapter. It's like the opposite of those strong-rushing chapters that make every PNM feel wanted, for lack of a better analogy.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

The crux of the matter is that PNMs are just not told how quota additions work and that doing an ISP will prevent them from being a quota addition...or even what "quota addition" means and how chapters get them. It is unfortunate and happens every year across the country with an average of about 50% getting what they want and the other 50% being left without a bid.

Bottom line is that if the girl would be THAT unhappy in her 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) choice, then those chapters at the bottom probably know it. I mean, if she feels strongly enough to not even list the group on her pref card?? Come on...you KNOW that chapter has a definite hold on that vibe and will place her way down on the list. Now, that doesn't mean that she won't still get them...but the odds are much more likely that she'll get her 1st choice.

So, what I"m saying is that Greek Life at the schools and the Gamma Chis need to do a better job of telling them WHY it is bad to ISP...not just "don't do it"...because we all know that this generation is one who needs reasons for what they do. They won't typically follow blindly with a recommendation from someone they've not even met until a week before rush starts.

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

Yeah....no. I'm quite aware of how RFM works. chapters with that many legacies have to make these decisions early on and estimate the probable quota so they don't end up with a legacy not getting a bid. For chapters with this issue, they wouldn't invite 50 legacies to pref. If their is a likelihood that they won't have space to guarantee them a bid, they get released before that is an issue. Have you heard of estimating? It's a pretty good way to keep from pissing off a lot of alumnae.

[Splash]

I have a question. What if a girl prefs at a top tier and 2 middle tier houses all of whom usually make quota and her school has guarenteed bid matching. Let's say she's not high enough on her first choice's list (the top tier) to get a bid, so if she SIP, she would be left bid-less. However, let's say at preference, she was incredibly rude to chapters 2 and 3 and made it clear she did not want their bid and then listed all 3 chapters on her card. All 3 chapters would make quota and she would not be on any of the bid lists. She would be eligible as a QA. Would she then get her choice? Not trying to start anything, just wondering.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Groups that require their legacies be on their first bid list would release any legacies they couldn't issue bids to before pref so this wouldn't be a problem. If quota is 40 and you have 50 legacies left before prefs, you've gotta release 10 of those legacies. Most chapters would have released them earlier anyway since it's not desireable to have a pledge class full of only legacies.

Originally Posted by thetalady

Just unbelieveable. I am sorry, but this is ABSOLUTELY, COMPLETELY FALSE!!

Please don't spread this kind of inaccurate information around & get any girl's hopes up.

Actually, it is statistically true that the majority of PNMs get a bid at their first choice. I don't think I've ever seen recruitment stats where more than 50% of the PNMs go to their second or third choice. At least 51% go to their first choice chapter, almost always. That doesn't mean it is guaranteed that you will get your first choice, but to say that "most" go to their top choice is not a lie.

Originally Posted by Splash

I have a question. What if a girl prefs at a top tier and 2 middle tier houses all of whom usually make quota and her school has guarenteed bid matching. Let's say she's not high enough on her first choice's list (the top tier) to get a bid, so if she SIP, she would be left bid-less. However, let's say at preference, she was incredibly rude to chapters 2 and 3 and made it clear she did not want their bid and then listed all 3 chapters on her card. All 3 chapters would make quota and she would not be on any of the bid lists. She would be eligible as a QA. Would she then get her choice? Not trying to start anything, just wondering.

NPC is pretty clear that if someone is invited to Pref, they are also somewhere on your bid list. This would probably backfire on this woman and she would alienate a whole bunch of greeks too.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Splash

I have a question. What if a girl prefs at a top tier and 2 middle tier houses all of whom usually make quota and her school has guarenteed bid matching. Let's say she's not high enough on her first choice's list (the top tier) to get a bid, so if she SIP, she would be left bid-less. However, let's say at preference, she was incredibly rude to chapters 2 and 3 and made it clear she did not want their bid and then listed all 3 chapters on her card. All 3 chapters would make quota and she would not be on any of the bid lists. She would be eligible as a QA. Would she then get her choice? Not trying to start anything, just wondering.

If she did, she probably wouldn't be made to feel very welcome and would end up dropping out...unless, of course, the top tier house is full of girls who are as big of bitches as she is and think this behavior is acceptable.

[DubaiSis]

My understanding is QA's go to the lowest recruiting strength chapter. If you're talking 3 chapters that all make quota, the lowest recruiting strength chapter may not be apparent by those not in the know or sitting in the room with the computer and the lists.

In this scenario, this girl SHOULD go bidless, but unfair as it is, she would get a bid.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

My understanding is QA's go to the lowest recruiting strength chapter. If you're talking 3 chapters that all make quota, the lowest recruiting strength chapter may not be apparent by those not in the know or sitting in the room with the computer and the lists.

In this scenario, this girl SHOULD go bidless, but unfair as it is, she would get a bid.

I thought some QAs could also go to the PNM's first choice? I am probably wrong and DubaiSis is probably right, but I want to make sure I have my facts straight.

And that totally sucks for the chapters involved.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

I thought some QAs could also go to the PNM's first choice? I am probably wrong and DubaiSis is probably right, but I want to make sure I have my facts straight.

And that totally sucks for the chapters involved.

The MOI is remarkably vague on this. The people placing the QA's have a lot of leeway. They are supposed to take into consideration the chapter size, the relative recruiting strength, and the PNM's preference.

[dukedg]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

I thought some QAs could also go to the PNM's first choice? I am probably wrong and DubaiSis is probably right, but I want to make sure I have my facts straight.

And that totally sucks for the chapters involved.

All campuses that I have dealt with place quota additions based on PNM preference rather than on a chapter's recruiting strength. I feel like PNM preference is by far the more common method.

What have others who have worked on numerous campuses seen?

[KSUViolet06]

^^^^It's been the same in my experience as well (at a number of schools I work with.) QAs tend to be placed based on the PNMs preference. That's why at times you'll see a chapter hit quota + 6 or something high like that. Because they were given the QAs who ranked them high.

Some chapters don't like that method because at times, an already strong recruiting chapter will get like 6 or 7 QAs (because that's just the way PNM preference worked out) while another barely makes quota or misses it altogether.

It sucks, but my theory is that if Patty PNM wanted XYZ and was in the position to receive a bid there as a QA, she should get it just because if you place her elsewhere based on other factors, she will most likely depledge anyway.


Ex: If she is in the position to be matched with XYZ (her 1st choice) as a QA, and Panhellenic says "well you know, ABC needs one more to make quota, she ranked them 3rd, so let's place her there" and matches her with ABC, she's not going to be happy and she's probably going to decline, leaving ABC with an open spot anyway. So I'm all about QA placement by preference.