After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I know it does, I just want to slap them upside the head until they realise how stupid and counterproductive it is. (Oh but it's ok because we're top tier. *slap* No *slap* it's *slap not. *slap*)

It hurts Greeks as a whole to perpetuate the idea that some of us are better than others, just as it hurts us to claim we're superior to the great un-washed Non-Greek masses. And it's something that the chapters AND the PNMs need education on.

The worst part is, that someone, upon reading this would say that I'm only jealous and miss the point entirely.

/meh sorry, pet-peeve

Not just the sororities and PNMs, but the fraternities as well. I think fraternities are the ones who decide "tiers", and they decide based on looks. It's sad, because there are plenty of chapters who would cut a PNM who has the personal qualities (GPA, activities, commitment level, personality) they are looking for but is overweight/unattractive/a lesbian/etc--- things that MEN find undesirable---because they don't want to be labeled the fat/ugly/lesbo sorority.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by bu1904

That is exactly what is happening. Rho Gamma's and Panhel are persuading
these girls to stick it out even though they got dropped by their "favorite" chapters early on. They go through the whole process and pressured not to suicide and on bid day they accept a bid from a chapter they didn't really want. Lots of these girls never really open up and give it a chance. Sometimes there is nothing really a chapter can do to make a girl want to stay. Especially when they see their friends are in the chapters they wanted to join. Surprisingly this past recruitment we had like 10 girls who had pledge chapters the year before go back through trying to get the chapter they didn't get the first time. 10 girls is a lot of my school which is fairly small.

Though it is unfortunate RFM doesn't have much to do with it. Truth is most of these flaky girls would have probably gotten cut from the top chapters anyway. The problem is with the types of girls in this generation.
Now I just graduated from college this year so these new girls are in my generation but I dont understand the way they think. I was a rho gam this past recruitment and I have noticed a lot of these girls feel entitled to receive bids to chapters they want. And these arent the girls that are legacies and have 3 or 4 recs, these are the girls that just decided they to go through yesterday cause all of their friends were doing it or registered for recruitment late even though they knew they want to rush before school even started. I dont know how many times we kept saying keep an open mind. My sorority wasnt my first choice or my second for that matter but I gave it a chance and it turned out to be the best group for me. Until girls learn to keep an open mind there will always be retention issues. Cause closed minded of girls never make good members.

This is what I was getting at. The girls who drop because they can't let go of the fact that they were cut by their faves during recruitment, still dreaming about being in a "better" sorority, and missing out on the chapter that actually wanted them.

I was a Rho Gamma my senior year, and I told my group up front that I would really like it if everyone stuck it out through preference. I promised them I would not pressure them to rank a chapter they wouldn't join. They all listened to me!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

This is what I was getting at. The girls who drop because they can't let go of the fact that they were cut by their faves during recruitment, still dreaming about being in a "better" sorority, and missing out on the chapter that actually wanted them.

I was a Rho Gamma my senior year, and I told my group up front that I would really like it if everyone stuck it out through preference. I promised them I would not pressure them to rank a chapter they wouldn't join. They all listened to me!

I think this is where we need to get with recruitment, because in the end, I don't really care if these self-absorbed girls don't get a bid. I care more that the chapters get strung along with a bunch a brats who will fill their spots and drop out later. It's not RFMs fault; it's the PNMs' fault and the Rho Chis' fault.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

This is what I was getting at. The girls who drop because they can't let go of the fact that they were cut by their faves during recruitment, still dreaming about being in a "better" sorority, and missing out on the chapter that actually wanted them.

I was a Rho Gamma my senior year, and I told my group up front that I would really like it if everyone stuck it out through preference. I promised them I would not pressure them to rank a chapter they wouldn't join. They all listened to me!

It sucks a little because we as alumnae have the benefit of hindsight.

We know that if you get that bid to that 2nd or 3rd choice, and you stick it out, chances are very good that you'll end up feeling at home there and being glad you accepted.

I always tell PNMs this:

I have never met a girl who looks back on her sorority experience after a few years and says "I wish I wouldn't have accepted."

However, if I had a dime for everytime I heard someone who declined a bid or depledged say "I wish I had tried it (or stuck it out)" I'd be rich.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Not just the sororities and PNMs, but the fraternities as well. I think fraternities are the ones who decide "tiers", and they decide based on looks. It's sad, because there are plenty of chapters who would cut a PNM who has the personal qualities (GPA, activities, commitment level, personality) they are looking for but is overweight/unattractive/a lesbian/etc--- things that MEN find undesirable---because they don't want to be labeled the fat/ugly/lesbo sorority.

At the very least the fraternities encourage and continue it. But the chapters themselves perpetuate it because even if they say they know it's silly, they really enjoy being on top. There's a lot here about how our society expects women to please men in looks and actions and how women are complicit and socialized into the sexism. But that's another thread. (Or a lifetime's work.)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bu1904

Though it is unfortunate RFM doesn't have much to do with it. Truth is most of these flaky girls would have probably gotten cut from the top chapters anyway. The problem is with the types of girls in this generation.
Now I just graduated from college this year so these new girls are in my generation but I dont understand the way they think. I was a rho gam this past recruitment and I have noticed a lot of these girls feel entitled to receive bids to chapters they want. And these arent the girls that are legacies and have 3 or 4 recs, these are the girls that just decided they to go through yesterday cause all of their friends were doing it or registered for recruitment late even though they knew they want to rush before school even started. I dont know how many times we kept saying keep an open mind. My sorority wasnt my first choice or my second for that matter but I gave it a chance and it turned out to be the best group for me. Until girls learn to keep an open mind there will always be retention issues. Cause closed minded of girls never make good members.

Yup. I was going to say RFM is working well at schools where the girls don't have their heads up their asses, but this is a nicer way of putting it.

The kind of girls bu1904 is talking about just can't deal with the fact that they've gone from being Miss Everything of their high school (oftentimes with very little effort) to, in their minds, failing. This is another reason I think deferred rush is better. You learn that lesson a bit more slowly over a semester, rather than getting gobsmacked with it before you've even taken a college class. And on the other side, the girls who WEREN'T a big deal in HS get a chance to reinvent themselves. Everybody wins.

[Drolefille]

So, because it's been brought up several times: Do we really think girls of "this generation" are all that different from girls 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago? Are these really new problems or just repackaged old ones? Or even a cyclical one?

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

The other reason I though of voluntary withdrawls/depledging is because I interpretted Lane Sig's question as certain chapters experiencing higher amounts of depledging/withdrawls than others. I'm not sure what he was getting at.

This is what I was primarily referring to; the voluntary withdrawls/depledging.

Example with changes in names: Southern State University's Alpha Beta sorority chapter is on a big campus with a competitive rush. All the other chapters begin rush with 150+ girls. Alpha Beta begins rush with +/- 60 girls. Before RMF, Alpha Beta never made quota. In the last couple of years, someone posts how all the chapters at SSU made quota (which is a good thing). However, when the spring grade report rolls around, all of the other sororities have 200+/- members, and AB, which should have 100 +/- members, still has about 60.

I guess I'm asking is if RMF is truly working, wouldn't AB be building their chapter instead of remaining the same.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

This is what I was primarily referring to; the voluntary withdrawls/depledging.

Example with changes in names: Southern State University's Alpha Beta sorority chapter is on a big campus with a competitive rush. All the other chapters begin rush with 150+ girls. Alpha Beta begins rush with +/- 60 girls. Before RMF, Alpha Beta never made quota. In the last couple of years, someone posts how all the chapters at SSU made quota (which is a good thing). However, when the spring grade report rolls around, all of the other sororities have 200+/- members, and AB, which should have 100 +/- members, still has about 60.

I guess I'm asking is if RMF is truly working, wouldn't AB be building their chapter instead of remaining the same.

I think it depends on when the depledging happens for us to be able to judge. But RMF is primarily aimed at achieving quota I think and doesn't address the other related issues. (So it solved one problem and revealed another perhaps)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So, because it's been brought up several times: Do we really think girls of "this generation" are all that different from girls 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago? Are these really new problems or just repackaged old ones? Or even a cyclical one?

Like many things, RMF doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are lots of other issues that weren't there 30 years ago, like shortened pledge programs, economic issues, tightened risk management and more emphasis on maintaining larger chapters (or at least on all the chapters being the same size).

The only thing that I think is really of "this generation" is the "OMG I've been in the sorority 2 weeks and I'm still not BFFs with everyone and I still don't fit in!!" I certainly didn't expect to be best friends with everyone after such a short period of time. Then again, this also doesn't exist in a vacuum - you have to factor in increased social interaction online and things like that. It's hard to tell which came first, the chicken or the egg.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Not just the sororities and PNMs, but the fraternities as well. I think fraternities are the ones who decide "tiers", and they decide based on looks. It's sad, because there are plenty of chapters who would cut a PNM who has the personal qualities (GPA, activities, commitment level, personality) they are looking for but is overweight/unattractive/a lesbian/etc--- things that MEN find undesirable---because they don't want to be labeled the fat/ugly/lesbo sorority.

Yep.

[Low C Sharp]

this past recruitment we had like 10 girls who had pledge chapters the year before go back through trying to get the chapter they didn't get the first time. 10 girls is a lot of my school which is fairly small.

Did it work for any of them?
________

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Did it work for any of them?

Just tagging on to this one, because we didn't have 10 but we would occasionally have a few. WE did have one who went through almost the whole NM period and it was not a well... mature... parting of ways on her part. Somehow she didn't end up with a bid the second time around.

Lesson to PNMs going around again on a second year: Chapters talk to each other.

[Splash]

I appreciated the comment that getting cut from top chapters early on and not being strung along allows PNM's to give other chapters a chance and be won over by them. This is a good thing. However what RFM prevents is allowing some of the top chapters from giving some of the PNM's another chance to win them over.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Splash

I appreciated the comment that getting cut from top chapters early on and not being strung along allows PNM's to give other chapters a chance and be won over by them. This is a good thing. However what RFM prevents is allowing some of the top chapters from giving some of the PNM's another chance to win them over.

The chapter's only going to be able to take quota either way. Odds are they'll still be cut, just sooner rather than before pref. And if you have such a high interest, it's not always that the PNM wasn't "on" enough. GPA below a certain point? Not gonna get invited back even if you're Miss Amazing.

I think it says a lot more about how PNMs think that they are, individually, perfect for XYZ (and unwilling to consider that they could possibly be a PQR)

So yes, in some ways the PNMs could lose out if they have a closed mind. But as has been pointed out, few people who get those 'less desirable*' bids say "I wish I hadn't stuck it out" while far more say "I wish I hadn't depledged."

*to the individual PNM only.