Student voted out of classroom!!!

[TorrentRain]

wow ... the mom definitely needs to sue.

Originally Posted by TorrentRain

wow ... the mom definitely needs to sue.

I have no doubt she intends to. Hence releasing the her son's picture to the media to drum up sympathy.

Kitso
KS 361

[Thetagirl218]

Here is an article on the teacher's side of things. There was actually a link to the actual report by the school resource officer but it seems to be taken off line....

[nate2512]

After reading the teacher's side, I still believe that was wrong, for her to do that. Now if they were o its lder, I could understand a bit more, but kindergarten, unacceptable. It doesn't matter what the intentions of the teacher were, its the interpretation from this little boy, and its sad that things came down to that. It's not the place of the little boys peers to decide his discipline. If the administration was sending the boy back to class, they obviously felt confident that had taken care of the situation, and it is not for this teacher to undermine that. She gets paid to teach, and thats what she should have been doing. If you teach kindergarten, you should have a little bit more patience, the only thing she cited was pushing a table up with his feet, which just sounds like a kid with a little too much energy. Let the kids take a break go out to the playground and release some energy if you have to. But the way she handled is just baffling and uncalled for.

[Senusret I]

^^^ Have you ever been a Kindergarten teacher before?

Originally Posted by nate2512

She gets paid to teach, and thats what she should have been doing. If you teach kindergarten, you should have a little bit more patience, the only thing she cited was pushing a table up with his feet, which just sounds like a kid with a little too much energy. Let the kids take a break go out to the playground and release some energy if you have to. But the way she handled is just baffling and uncalled for.

Ok man, I'm calling bullshit on this. Yes, she gets paid to teach. Part of teaching is classroom management, i.e. making sure your students have an environment in which learning can take place, free from disruptions. That's the whole reason for behavior interventions and policies.

Look, unless you've spent 9 years teaching kindergarten like this teacher, or anytime at all with those aged kids in an educational setting, you really don't have an idea of what it is like. I spent 3 years of my Education preparation dealing with these aged kids in a PE setting, and in that setting it was hard enough to keep them focused and on task. This isn't daycare or babysitting, kindergarten teachers have objectives and information that they are responsible for teaching those kids. If one kid is CONSTANTLY and REPEATEDLY disturbing your classroom environment, he needs to be removed.

Did the teacher handle this situation in the best manner? No, but I honestly feel that her administration did not do her any favors.

As far as "taking them out to recess". Yeah, that'll be real effective. It'll take the kids maybe 2 or 3 weeks into the school year to learn that they can get free time by misbehaving. Once you go down that road, you've lost them.

Kitso
KS 361

[TexasWSP]

What an absurd story. My mother taught kindergarten for 10 years at a private school and said she would have been fired on the spot if she would have done that.

Completely uncalled for and totally unjustifiable. I don't care what was wrong with the child and for how long they sent him out.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by wreckingcrew

Which is why I'm not a huge fan of Inclusion. I wasn't when I was a PE major and I'm still not as a classroom teacher. I understand that children with disabilities have the right to receive the highest quality education that their disability allows, but when it comes at the detriment of their classmates, who is that fair to? If a kid goes to a resource room for English and Math instruction, why should they be placed in a Science or Social Studies classroom, where those skills are essential parts of the instruction? Just my feelings.

Kitso
KS 361

But isn't part of the problem the fact that kids w/ Asperger's ARE quite intelligent & have high IQs once you get past the behavior issues? I mean, I don't think it would be fair to them to have to sit in a classroom w/ kids who are 7 & still don't know the alphabet.

I don't know how big this school district is but you only have so much $ & so many teachers & classrooms.

[shinerbock]

I've only glanced at the story, but from what I can tell, it seems completely inappropriate. I am certainly in favor of tough punishment for unruly kids, but shaming a young child in front of his class is absurd and cruel.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But isn't part of the problem the fact that kids w/ Asperger's ARE quite intelligent & have high IQs once you get past the behavior issues?

That is part of the problem. Another thing to consider here is that truly disruptive behavior is not necessarily a common trait among kids with Aspergers/High Functioning Autism. In my experience it is the exception rather than the rule, though I can't say how it pans out nationally. I know it has rarely been an real issue with my son.

What are common traits are the ineptitude at social interaction and non-verbal communication (body language, inflection, sarcasm, etc.) and that disciplinary tactics that work with most kids may not work (may even make things worse) with the Aspergers/HFA kid. You often have to find different strategies for them.

The bottom line is that there isn't one right answer on whether these kids should be mainstreamed or not -- some kids should and others shouldn't. It has to be judged on a case by case basis.

[AGDee]

The children with Asperger's in our elementary school each had a Title 1 aide who worked with the child one on one. These children also ate in the classroom because the cafeteria was overwhelming to them and they each got to choose one classmate to eat with each day. The school did a good job of educating the kids in the classroom why "Nick" and "Andi" got this special treatment. In fact, "Nick" is in 8th grade now and still has his aide with him. I don't know where he eats in middle school. I haven't heard the kids talk about Andi so I think she may have moved or something.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The children with Asperger's in our elementary school each had a Title 1 aide who worked with the child one on one. These children also ate in the classroom because the cafeteria was overwhelming to them and they each got to choose one classmate to eat with each day. The school did a good job of educating the kids in the classroom why "Nick" and "Andi" got this special treatment.

See, that's great -- especially if it helped those kids learn and integrate and helped their classmates understand and accept them. But still the one size doesn't fit all. My son is always very resistant to anything that he thinks draws attention to him or singles him out as "special." I'm only exaggerating a little when I say he'd rather have all his teeth pulled out than have it explained to his classmates why special accomodations are being made for him.

We've been extremely fortunate in having him assigned to teachers who have some understanding of Apergers and a willingness to understand him. The result has been teachers who know how to give him the support he needs and how to challenge him appropriately without making a noticeable deal out of it.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As the father of an Aspie kid, I can't even begin to describe how utterly mindblowing and saddening this is. Fortunately, I can say that the teachers in our public school experience have been the polar opposite of this ignoramus.

I found this line in the second story linked particularly interesting:

"She said she then asked him to listen to what the children didn't like about the things he did, and she asked him how it made him feel."

Clearly she is not only clueless about disciplining kindergarterners in general, but she is clueless about Aspergers and how kids with Aspergers think and process information. I understand as well as anyone the challenges that these kids can present (though, again fortunately, our son never had these same kinds of discipline problems and frequent trips to the principal's office), but she's supposed to be the adult in the situation.

Just beyond sad.

Are we certain that the teacher ever had any indication that the child had the "autism-spectrum disorder" he was (later) diagnosed with?

If she did not, and if the problems were repeated (and without any accompanying diagnoses to help explain the behavioral issues), I can see where the teacher would resign to a more direct, hands-on approach (although I do agree, the apparent utility of her approach seems hilariously low).

I feel bad for the teacher to an extent, because it appears she will be tried in the Court of Public Opinion under the guise of a post-hoc analysis (and diagnosis) that she may not have understood or even had any awareness of.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Are we certain that the teacher ever had any indication that the child had the "autism-spectrum disorder" he was (later) diagnosed with?

If she did not, and if the problems were repeated (and without any accompanying diagnoses to help explain the behavioral issues), I can see where the teacher would resign to a more direct, hands-on approach (although I do agree, the apparent utility of her approach seems hilariously low).

I feel bad for the teacher to an extent, because it appears she will be tried in the Court of Public Opinion under the guise of a post-hoc analysis (and diagnosis) that she may not have understood or even had any awareness of.

I understand this, but does it really matter? The kid was what, 5?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Are we certain that the teacher ever had any indication that the child had the "autism-spectrum disorder" he was (later) diagnosed with?

I haven't seen anything that says one way or the other. However, if I recall, one of the articles linked said that it was the principal who suggested that the kid be evaluated for Aspergers. I would find it strange that the principal would make such a suggestion without talking about it with the teacher.

Of course, strange happens.

But despite my posts and "closeness" to this as the father of a kid with Aspergers, I think my reaction would have been the same if the kid didn't have it. I can't imagine doing this with any kindergarten class, for any reason. The Aspergers aspect just provides an additional facet for me.