Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I believe that you could choose to, but if you didn't do anything your "default" membership was with the original NPC.

I actually think it is stupid that they would have to choose between the two. Who is hurt by sisters keeping membership in both? They already know both the rituals so they'd be more likely to keep there secrets as alums of both than as ex-alums of one.

[Just interested]

I have always wondered this, and 33 girl maybe you can answer this question. I know Zeta and KD were relatively late joining NPC in the early days. I believe Zeta joined in 09 and KD in 1912. As far as KD was concerned, I know there was much discussion about losing their Alpha chapter at Longwood and other chapters at schools that did not fit the NPC criteria. Did ASA and Tri Sigma have the same option but chose the other path of forming AES with other groups founded at Normal schools instead? Was it discussed and decided against by the early leaders?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Just interested

I have always wondered this, and 33 girl , maybe you can answer this question. I know Zeta and KD were relatively late joining NPC in the early days. I believe Zeta joined in 09 and KD in 1912. As far as KD was concerned, I know there was much discussion about losing their Alpha chapter at Longwood and other chapters at schools that did not fit the NPC criteria. Did ASA and Tri Sigma have the same option but chose the other path of forming AES with other groups founded at Normal schools instead? Was it discussed and decided against by the early leaders?

I have my Encounter on my lap so this is a direct quote, not even I am this big of a history geek. "During June 1915, considerable correspondence passed between the President of ASA and the National Council of SSS relative to the formation of an association of social educational sororities. Both groups were receptive to the idea and the Association of Educational Sororities was formed in September, 1915."

And you have to remember at this time...our national president was Ida Shaw Martin...aka Sarah Ida Shaw, one of the founders of Tri Delta. So that's another thing in the whole mix and probably one of the reasons we didn't go NPC at that time. Hopefully one of the Tri Sigmas can weigh in on why they decided to also not pursue the NPC avenue then.

[Just interested]

I think you are exactly right. Ida Shaw Martin probably did have something to do with it. She and others probably had no idea that Normal Schools would one day become 4 year institutions or even become full-fledged universities for that matter.

[Low C Sharp]

it's because my sorority has had issues with promises made by NPC and not followed through.

And if your sorority had responded to those broken promises by separating itself from the NPC, I would say, "Good for you." You shouldn't stay in a relationship that's not mutually beneficial.

Look, vows matter, but sometimes the "marriage" between a group of individuals and a national organization just doesn't work out. Suppose your husband were breaking promises to you, taking your money, ignoring your needs, etc., and he didn't change after a year of counseling and trying to improve the relationship. If you decided to leave him and marry somebody who treated you better, I certainly wouldn't judge you for breaking your vow. That's what the KBG girls did. I say, good for them.
________
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[oldu]

Why begrudge a chapter for leaving an organization that is not providing the services it wants or needs? It has happened many times over the years to groups from NPC, NIC & AES. The reason why the AES organizations asked to join NPC was so that they COULD be more competitive. They were losing chapters regularly as teachers colleges became universities (Kent State as the best example). Kappa Beta Gamma is not the only non-NPC group with a small number of chapters. If they wish to succeed they will have to aggressively market themselves to grow sufficiently and ultimately petition NPC for some sort of status. I doubt that these women were sophisticated enough when they joined to know the significance of an NPC group. Only after joining would they have learned the differecne and disparity of support. I applaud them for wanting to improve their status, and Kappa Delta should be proud to have them.

[PhiRhoSister]

There are really 2 issues here. The first is, a chapter (or a large group of women in the chapter) of a national sorority "shopping" for a new national sorority. The second is, a NPC sorority accepting for membership initiated members/chapter of another national sorority.

On the first issue, almost everything that others and former members have said why the former KBG chapters were justified in shopping for a new national sorority, has at one time or another occurred in my small national sorority. Fortunately, instead of taking the easy way out and giving up, the chapters which have been most frustrated have had members step up to the plate and help the sorority become better. For example, one chapter wanted nationals to provide the leadership training that had been lacking for years -- the active/alum members of this chapter basically helped form the leadership training program we now have, then helped establish our leadership conferences, and continue to volunteer with leading the leadership training.

For the second issue, I started a new thread -- so flame away on the new thread.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by PhiRhoSister

For example, one chapter wanted nationals to provide the leadership training that had been lacking for years -- the active/alum members of this chapter basically helped form the leadership training program we now have, then helped establish our leadership conferences, and continue to volunteer with leading the leadership training.

Granted, and I agree that would be a great way to handle a chapter that needs help if the nationals can't (or won't) step in.

But in at least the F&M's chapter's situation, it was such a young chapter, they didn't have any kind of alum base around them to look to for help or wisdom. AND they kept hearing from nationals, "it's coming, it's coming", so the undergrads probably didn't assume it was their place to just come up with their own materials (nor would they have had any experience to do so).

[PhiRhoSister]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Granted, and I agree that would be a great way to handle a chapter that needs help if the nationals can't (or won't) step in.

But in at least the F&M's chapter's situation, it was such a young chapter, they didn't have any kind of alum base around them to look to for help or wisdom. AND they kept hearing from nationals, "it's coming, it's coming", so the undergrads probably didn't assume it was their place to just come up with their own materials (nor would they have had any experience to do so).

nittanyalum - In the example I gave about leadership training, the chapter was less than 5 years old at the time and only had a handful of alum. Thus, younger and smaller.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by oldu

I doubt that these women were sophisticated enough when they joined to know the significance of an NPC group. Only after joining would they have learned the differecne and disparity of support.

I highly doubt your doubt, as I said earlier. F & M is regularly on lists of top colleges. They don't have stupid students. I'm sure the founding sisters realized there was a disparity...but they probably also were limited in the sorority choices they had, as some NPC groups will not colonize at a college where the Greeks are not recognized. Add to that the prickly relationship between the college and the Greeks at the time.

[KD_Lady]

So many NPC sorority chapters began as local sororities or members of small national organizations. I don't think it's very fair to isolate this particular group. As groups and campuses grow and change, it's natural for sororities to evolve as well. I believe that Chi Omega is also present on the F&M campus, and NPC affiliation may have been vital for the chapter to sustain itself in that environment.

[ilovetheviolets]

I appreciate your point, but I can vouch that NPC affiliation is not necessary to survive at F&M as KBG has actually began to thrive over the last few years (from what I've seen and heard). 2 of their recent alumnae actually recieved the highest award that F&M offers upon graduation.

P.S...I read somewhere that they seemed like an "I want it now" type of chapter...and though I respect the women there, you should know that they started as an "I want it now" type of chapter who did not go through creating an interest group b/c they knew no NPC would start there at the time (even though re-recognition was happening the next year). None went through formal recruitment (or informal recruitment), they just wanted letters, and actually at first wore tri-delta letters b/c they thought that's what you did. That atleast is how it looked from the outside. I appreciate that KD is there now so hopefully that means their values have switched and they will take it all more seriously.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KD_Lady

So many NPC sorority chapters began as local sororities or members of small national organizations.

Locals, yes.

Regionals, maybe.

Small national organizations...well...considering there really aren't very many of those, I would say no. Unless you consider a "regional" a "small national."

**wanting PhiPsiRuss to come back for this thread**

[flowerpixie3]

Originally Posted by ilovetheviolets

I appreciate your point, but I can vouch that NPC affiliation is not necessary to survive at F&M as KBG has actually began to thrive over the last few years (from what I've seen and heard). 2 of their recent alumnae actually recieved the highest award that F&M offers upon graduation.

P.S...I read somewhere that they seemed like an "I want it now" type of chapter...and though I respect the women there, you should know that they started as an "I want it now" type of chapter who did not go through creating an interest group b/c they knew no NPC would start there at the time (even though re-recognition was happening the next year). None went through formal recruitment (or informal recruitment), they just wanted letters, and actually at first wore tri-delta letters b/c they thought that's what you did. That atleast is how it looked from the outside. I appreciate that KD is there now so hopefully that means their values have switched and they will take it all more seriously.

ilovetheviolets, think you should check your facts on all this info! the original chapter was never the 'i want it now' sort of girls, and it's a bit insulting for you to say that. they did try to start an interest group and asked panhellenic council to open for expansion so that national groups could come. the panhellenic council at that time outright refused to do this, never giving reasons, and the interest group that became a local sorority at that time were forced to look outside the NPC sororities for a national group. this had nothing to do with them wanting to wear letters or an 'i want it now' attitude, they put the work in and did the research for over a year so i'm not sure where you even got your info from.
second off recognition was still a few years down the line and was not officially put in place until the fall of 2004. i believe that KBG was contact over the summer of 2002. and i'm not really sure what rerecognition has to do with a group of girls wanting to start a new sorority, except that they may have had more support from the administration at that time.
and a few girls did go through formal rush with the two sororities that were on campus at the time, but decided that they just weren't the right fit for them. if other founders of the chapter didn't go through, this might have also been because they didn't think the two sororities were what they were looking for, but when the offer of a third sorority came up they felt that was where they did fit in.
i think your judgements on what the founders did or didn't do was a bit harsh and not very factual. so despite what 'it looked like from the outside' it was actually very different. also, it doesn't have anything to do with values changing, as the girls in that organisation have always had very high values and still do.

[kappadivstar]

Wow...I just found this thread and I realize it's like 6 months old- by my chapter basically got beat to hell in this extremely one sided story. Its unfortunate that no one from our chapter was apparently on this board at this time.

Can I take this time to point out that the two chapters being "colonized" never happened, and the KBG website STILL hasn't been updated? This is ridiculous. I am so offended by this.