DARK/LIGHT...SKIN COLOR.........Is this still an issue? Let's be honest Sorors & SF'

[IOTA-4A'88F]

OK, I had alil' bit of time to read some of the comments, I can come at this from different angles...
1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

**(SEPARATE THOUGHT) Yes, it was said before, red eyes in human albinos are rare, but not non-existing. My mother receives a bi-monthly Albino publication that had photos of red (and even purple) eyed human albinos. Red eyes are the cause of the underlying retinal blood vessels showing through where there is not enough pigment to cover them. Human eyes are larger (than animals) and can produce enough pigment for the eye to be opaque. **

My mother is #2 of four siblings. Two were albino. My sister and I are not, but I believe my children (whenever I have some) will be. My sister's kids showed traits of albinism.

2. One of the reasons, I think (and probably has been said) is the fact that, society plays so much of an emphasis on skin tone and color (not meaning race) in general. If it is an darker hue, it is denoted as a bad feeling, "It's pitch black outside", "I am feeling blue", "mellow yellow", "I am red hot", "Green with eny." It's only natural that we as a society bring that mentality into play. And it don't stay within the Black race. Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Jewish people have the same hangups about skin tone... some more than us. Including White people, they discriminate on skin tone (at times) worse than we do (IMHO-one of the reasons why they want a tan so bad- it denotes from a White person, a class of luxury and leisure).

[NappyBison]

I loathe the comparison of "good hair vs bad hair". As if a difference in skin tone didn't cause enough drama, we have to be judgemental about our beautiful hair too As long as you're blessed to have hair on your head it's good IMO.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Velocity_14

How about I used to hear (still a little today) "oooh you got some pretty hair to be darkskinned." Uuuuuuuuuum, so what is that supposed to mean??? Is my hair supposed to be bad because I'm dark; I'm not suppose to take care of my hair? Geeeeeesh!

yup I used to get that when I was younger. I also used to get "your hair is so long to be dark skinned" or the ever popular "you are so pretty to be dark skinned."

How about this, I once had a guy tell me that I was really pretty but that he didn't date dark skinned girls and he was dark. I guess he was afraid of ending up with dark skinned kids.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

OK, I had alil' bit of time to read some of the comments, I can come at this from different angles...
1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

**(SEPARATE THOUGHT) Yes, it was said before, red eyes in human albinos are rare, but not non-existing. My mother receives a bi-monthly Albino publication that had photos of red (and even purple) eyed human albinos. Red eyes are the cause of the underlying retinal blood vessels showing through where there is not enough pigment to cover them. Human eyes are larger (than animals) and can produce enough pigment for the eye to be opaque. **

My mother is #2 of four siblings. Two were albino. My sister and I are not, but I believe my children (whenever I have some) will be. My sister's kids showed traits of albinism.

2. One of the reasons, I think (and probably has been said) is the fact that, society plays so much of an emphasis on skin tone and color (not meaning race) in general. If it is an darker hue, it is denoted as a bad feeling, "It's pitch black outside", "I am feeling blue", "mellow yellow", "I am red hot", "Green with eny." It's only natural that we as a society bring that mentality into play. And it don't stay within the Black race. Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Jewish people have the same hangups about skin tone... some more than us. Including White people, they discriminate on skin tone (at times) worse than we do (IMHO-one of the reasons why they want a tan so bad- it denotes from a White person, a class of luxury and leisure).

Actually linking what's bad and good to colors and skin tones is only natural for some because society created such a consciousness as a result of prejudice based on a fear of those (Black/African) who looked different from Europeans.

Take children for example, when they are very young, they will play with anyone, no matter what color they are. It's only when they start to pick up the attitudes and feelings of those around them and the greater society, that they start to associate colors/skin tones and other physical characteristics of people as good or bad. This is not an innate thing, this is a learned thing. As for the dark vs. light, bad vs. good, that exists among other ethnicities like Latinos and Asians, they have also been impacted greatly by this societal consciousness, which has become a world consciousness. This is the same consciousness "color consciousness" that has put European ideals of beauty on a pedestal for all other races to admire and compare themselves to. This is the tragedy.

[Velocity_14]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

yup I used to get that when I was younger. I also used to get "your hair is so long to be dark skinned" or the ever popular "you are so pretty to be dark skinned."

How about this, I once had a guy tell me that I was really pretty but that he didn't date dark skinned girls and he was dark. I guess he was afraid of ending up with dark skinned kids.

The nerve of some people! When my hair was long people used to assume FIRST that it wasn't mine. I cut my hair in a short layered bob a couple of months ago but I am going to grow it back out because I miss my "bounce" and I found a good and affordable beautician. Now people want to ask me is my hair a wig...I mean dude...come on.....lol. Why can't it just be pretty because it's pretty...not pretty to be dark skinned.

Girl, I would have asked that man has he looked in the mirror lately or told him I didn't date dark skinned men either...just to see what he would say...lol. Peaple are really a trip!

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Velocity_14

The nerve of some people! When my hair was long people used to assume FIRST that it wasn't mine. I cut my hair in a short layered bob a couple of months ago but I am going to grow it back out because I miss my "bounce" and I found a good and affordable beautician. Now people want to ask me is my hair a wig...I mean dude...come on.....lol. Why can't it just be pretty because it's pretty...not pretty to be dark skinned.

Girl, I would have asked that man has he looked in the mirror lately or told him I didn't date dark skinned men either...just to see what he would say...lol. Peaple are really a trip!

Girl, that happened when I was in my teens and I was so used to being discriminated against (yes, by Black people both light and dark) that it didn't bother me anymore. For one thing, I knew that I was fine and my family and others always told me how beautiful I was but I admit that I did wrestle with self-esteem as a younger child...kids are cruel ya know. I was also always taught to be proud of being Black, we all were in my family and I have family members of all different shades. That is the only way this kind of thing will stop. We have to teach our children that "Black is Beautiful" no matter what shade it comes in, no matter what texture of hair and you have to teach your kids to be proud of their African American and African heritage while they're young. Knowledge of self can really make the difference and until we get that thru our heads, there will be more of the same.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

Well, in that case, there are plenty of extreeeeeeeeemely light and light featured blacks who aren't albino. Moreover, many of these people also have fine features (which albinos don't automatically have nor do extreeeemely light blacks, of course) so they could pass for white. So the same theory of "light bright damn near white" applies without an extensive analysis of albinism.

Oh and I was interested by the photos on this website that I'm sure you're already familiar with: http://www.albinism.org/

[IOTA-4A'88F]

Originally Posted by NappyBison

I loathe the comparison of "good hair vs bad hair". As if a difference in skin tone didn't cause enough drama, we have to be judgemental about our beautiful hair too As long as you're blessed to have hair on your head it's good IMO.

Dang, I have no hair on my head... now I am feeling bad

Just kiddin'

[IOTA-4A'88F]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Well, in that case, there are plenty of extreeeeeeeeemely light and light featured blacks who aren't albino. Moreover, many of these people also have fine features (which albinos don't automatically have nor do extreeeemely light blacks, of course) so they could pass for white. So the same theory of "light bright damn near white" applies without an extensive analysis of albinism.

Oh and I was interested by the photos on this website that I'm sure you're already familiar with: http://www.albinism.org/

So true... and the link is actually the org that my mother receives publications from.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Girl, that happened when I was in my teens and I was so used to being discriminated against (yes, by Black people both light and dark) that it didn't bother me anymore. For one thing, I knew that I was fine and my family and others always told me how beautiful I was but I admit that I did wrestle with self-esteem as a younger child...kids are cruel ya know. I was also always taught to be proud of being Black, we all were in my family and I have family members of all different shades. That is the only way this kind of thing will stop. We have to teach our children that "Black is Beautiful" no matter what shade it comes in and you have to teach your kids to be proud of their African American and African heritage while they're young. Knowledge of self can really make the difference and until we get that thru our heads, there will be more of the same.

I agree.

Kids pick that nonsense up from adults and not always their parents, as well as from popular images. My first overt exposure to it was from my elementary school classmates who had gotten it from the adults in their lives. I remember when I was little I wrote a short story about a "pretty lightskinned girl with long hair and an ugly darkskinned girl with very short hair" (). I had the nerve to read that story to my best friend at the time who was dark skinned with short hair. She thought I made the story about the two of us. She said "so...you're saying I'm ugly?" and she started crying and was depressed the rest of the day. I was so ashamed and my parents definitely gave me a TALKING TO about that. I got in trouble and I should've. That nonsense was fed to me and my parents were trying to dispose of it before it was too late.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

So true... and the link is actually the org that my mother receives publications from.

It's good to have that support group and that support group's worth is based on the fact that albinism is a condition that spans across race, ethnicity, and culture.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

Dang, I have no hair on my head... now I am feeling bad

Just kiddin'

Bald head? Woohoo!!!!

When we discuss issues of hair as linked to color, it's usually women discussing it. I have found that men also get into the "good hair" thing. I recall one dude who definitely played up his curly hair and another dude who had been told all of his adulthood that he was "good for breeding" because of his straight hair and light grey eyes.

What's up with wave caps, btw? LOL.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Bald head? Woohoo!!!!

When we discuss issues of hair as linked to color, it's usually women discussing it. I have found that men also get into the "good hair" thing. I recall one dude who definitely played his curly hair and another dude who had been told all of his adulthood that he was "good for breeding" because of his straight hair and light grey eyes.

I think more women discuss it because men discuss it, as in "good hair" is what they prefer their women to have. Men are very into the whole "good" hair vs. "bad" hair thing but not for themselves, for women. No one knows more about this than our "happy to be nappy" sistas who went from permed hair to natural and watched many of the men that used to try and holla before, suddenly stop.

I used to wear my hair natural and I got compliments from women all the time who would say, "I wish I could do that" and when I asked them why they felt they couldn't, they would say it was because the men in their lives wouldn't like it or because they didn't think that men would like it.

[IOTA-4A'88F]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Actually linking what's bad and good to colors and skin tones is only natural for some because society created such a consciousness as a result of prejudice based on a fear of those (Black/African) who looked different from Europeans.

Take children for example, when they are very young, they will play with anyone, no matter what color they are. It's only when they start to pick up the attitudes and feelings of those around them and the greater society, that they start to associate colors/skin tones and other physical characteristics of people as good or bad. This is not an innate thing, this is a learned thing. As for the dark vs. light, bad vs. good, that exists among other ethnicities like Latinos and Asians, they have also been impacted greatly by this societal consciousness, which has become a world consciousness. This is the same consciousness "color consciousness" that has put European ideals of beauty on a pedestal for all other races to admire and compare themselves to. This is the tragedy.

The bold quote is understood, but I would have to differ on the "for some," respectfully, all ethnicities do this. The skin separation is only the skimmed surface, we as human race have always separated ourselves from those who are not (deemed) like-minded. Not to say, the separation was a negative or positive one, but one that we have in us. Even within the "like-minded" community, they (we, us, them) further separate. Take our orgs... we separate ourselves simply by the organization and within that particular org, we further separate by neophyte as opposed to prophyte, line brother/sister as oppose to other brothers/sisters and even who pledged and who didn't pledge. It's in us all (for some instances, unfortunately).

As far as the children... so on point, they are born without prejudice and a sense of wanting to separate... or are they... I know I kept my Legos separated from my Play-Doh.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

The bold quote is understood, but I would have to differ on the "for some," respectfully, all ethnicities do this. The skin separation is only the skimmed surface, we as human race have always separated ourselves from those who are not (deemed) like-minded. Not to say, the separation was a negative or positive one, but one that we have in us. Even within the "like-minded" community, they (we, us, them) further separate. Take our orgs... we separate ourselves simply by the organization and within that particular org, we further separate by neophyte as opposed to prophyte, line brother/sister as oppose to other brothers/sisters and even who pledged and who didn't pledge. It's in us all (for some instances, unfortunately).

As far as the children... so on point, they are born without prejudice and a sense of wanting to separate... or do they... I know I kept my Legos separated from my Play-Doh.

Yes, humans have almost always sought to distinguish and categorize ourselves. One of the earliest distinctions being gender. We take from these differences a need to place different values, roles, and treatments, for instance. Folks like Charles Tilly (Categorical Inequality) feel like this is the basis for all inequalities.

It is about like-mindedness but usually it is initially about the observable differences between people and then the differences in "mind" come later to justify why "they are so different and we are so better."

And stuff like "you think you're better because you're light" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The person is obviously light so the difference in "mind" is assumed even if it isn't true. But if that light person is fed enough bullcrap about being better than and being treated like they are "different," they may eventually be more conscious of that.