Politics 2008:The Caucuses and The Dem/Rep Conventions

[AKA2D '91]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Because with technology data can be more easily manipulated than with paper ballots and be less likely to leave an audit trail. I actually saw video of a congressional testimony for an electronic ballot contracting company where the contractor was being asked questions on whether the data could be manipulated and he was saying yes it could.

I wouldn't be so quick to give credence to electronic ballots if I were you.

I'll leave you all with this quote:

"Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." - Joseph Stalin.

I understand that, too. BUT, as long as I cast my vote, that's all I'm concerned with. What happens after that, is out of my hands. At least I've made an effort to go to the polls and take care of the business as expeditiously as possible.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4

Ohio used to have voting machines but last Spring they voted to do away with it from what I remember hearing on the news while in Ohio last May.

TonyB, can elaborate more for me.

Ohio has several issues:

- there is no consistent system statewide. Some counties use touch pad, others use paper ballots;

- Voting apparatus is not always sufficiently maintained, leading to machine breakdowns, misplaced or "lost" paper ballots....I can't say it's exclusive to urban areas, but I've never heard/read of voting machines in affluent communities having problems.

- Insufficient quantity of working machines (again, this appears more often in urban communities. I've seen simular reports from Columbus and Cincinnati). Given that counties know the number of registered voters in their counties, this one is really mystifying... or not.

- There is no legal requirement, so far as I can tell, for counties to maintain proper working order of whatever system they use. This results in election day machine breakdowns, longer lines and delays which disuade people from voting.

State election officials about 4 months ago ordered Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), which has had a lot of these issues in the last few elections to step its game up. What enforcement ability the state has to mandate changes isn't known. They toured the Cuy County Bd. of Elections last week and said everything was "all good," but, you can take that for whatever you feel it's worth.

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally Posted by ladylike

I try to forget, too.

The last two primaries I've participated in had touch screen voting machines.
One was a little more antiquated than the other.

The new secretary of state wants Ohio to go back to paper ballots. I'm not sure how many counties have done so (if at all).

Yeah, this is what I was referring to earlier.

[unspokenone25]

Uh yeah. We did it too big last night. The Texas Two-Step system sucks. lol. I wish the PJ had tried to shut down our location. There would have been a melee. i heard of two instances were the PJs left and didn't return to open up the caucus after the primary election had closed. A college friend who was in Dallas was stating that her location was packed too. As far as the caucus part, that was by paper ballot. For the all elections in Harris County (can't speak for the surrounding counties), it's electronic machines. It was interesting that Obama took the urban counties (with the exception of San Antonio). From what I saw on news reports, those were the most heavily caucus areas.

Now that is a crazy azz stipulation for Ohio. Wow.

Originally Posted by AKA2D '91

My sister called and told me something very similar to your experience. She said she had been in line for 2 hours and there seemed to be hundreds in front of her. She said that (at this time it was 8:56), they (election PTB) were beginning to "shut down".

Earlier last night, I spoke with a Sororfriend in the area, and her friend interrupted our call to say that there were hundreds in line waiting to caucus where she was.

You all like to do things BIG in Texas.

I heard on TJMS that in Ohio, precints ran out of ballots. There were also cases when voting on paper, there are stipulations that voters must follow. For instance, when voting on paper the ink can't bleed through the paper. huh?

I know Louisiana is on the bottom of the list for many national lists, but I am so glad we have had voting machines, and these new computerized machines. You just click on the area and CAST VOTE!

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Ohio has several issues:

- there is no consistent system statewide. Some counties use touch pad, others use paper ballots;

- Voting apparatus is not always sufficiently maintained, leading to machine breakdowns, misplaced or "lost" paper ballots....I can't say it's exclusive to urban areas, but I've never heard/read of voting machines in affluent communities having problems.

- Insufficient quantity of working machines (again, this appears more often in urban communities. I've seen simular reports from Columbus and Cincinnati). Given that counties know the number of registered voters in their counties, this one is really mystifying... or not.

- There is no legal requirement, so far as I can tell, for counties to maintain proper working order of whatever system they use. This results in election day machine breakdowns, longer lines and delays which disuade people from voting.

State election officials about 4 months ago ordered Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), which has had a lot of these issues in the last few elections to step its game up. What enforcement ability the state has to mandate changes isn't known. They toured the Cuy County Bd. of Elections last week and said everything was "all good," but, you can take that for whatever you feel it's worth.

wow, that is crazy.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Because with technology data can be more easily manipulated than with paper ballots and be less likely to leave an audit trail. I actually saw video of a congressional testimony for an electronic ballot contracting company where the contractor was being asked questions on whether the data could be manipulated and he was saying yes it could.

I wouldn't be so quick to give credence to electronic ballots if I were you.

I'll leave you all with this quote:

"Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." - Joseph Stalin.

Why can't there be both? An electronic vote with electronic back up (onsite and offsite) AND paper documentation (for the voter and for the election board). I don't understand why that is so difficult? My pocket calculator is smarter than the average voting machine! Frankly, I think it is a ploy by the politicians and voting machine manufacturers to keep the public and local governments spending money that they should be spending elsewhere....

[mccoyred]

Farewell, Ron Paul

ABC News has learned that Ron Paul has, at last, decided to officially drop out of the race for the Republican nomination.
http://news.aol.com/political-machin...well-ron-paul/

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

After some research, reflection, and thinking, I think that even though Obama seems like a model presidential candidate, I decided to go with my gut feeling and vote for who I most believed in and who I thought truly cared most about the fate about our nation.

I voted for Ron Paul.


(I didn't see anywhere in the thread where discussion was limited to presidential candidates, hence the following):

I also decided to vote for David Ryon for my local Congressman, as his values were very similar to that of Ron Paul, and best of all his stance on the issues would most directly impact me, and that my letters and concerns to him would be least likely to be ignored. Frankly I am not impressed with Pat Tiberi and I hope Ryon stomps him in the general election.

ETA: David Ryon is also a graduate of Central State University

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Farewell, Ron Paul

ABC News has learned that Ron Paul has, at last, decided to officially drop out of the race for the Republican nomination.
http://news.aol.com/political-machin...well-ron-paul/

For the record, RON PAUL HAS NOT DROPPED OUT!!!!

The article in question has no real basis in fact for its story, and is interpreted by some as an attempt on ABC's part to discourage delegates to vote for him at Convention, as well as discourage voters in remaining primary states.

Actual news on his campaign status can ONLY be found at ronpaul2008.com (and after a brief review of the site, nowhere is there any mention of Ron Paul conceding the presidential race or dropping out).

Conclusion: ABC News' story is bogus--and could be grounds for a lawsuit for printing false/misleading information.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

For the record, RON PAUL HAS NOT DROPPED OUT!!!!

The article in question has no real basis in fact for its story, and is interpreted by some as an attempt on ABC's part to discourage delegates to vote for him at Convention, as well as discourage voters in remaining primary states.

Actual news on his campaign status can ONLY be found at ronpaul2008.com (and after a brief review of the site, nowhere is there any mention of Ron Paul conceding the presidential race or dropping out).

Conclusion: ABC News' story is bogus--and could be grounds for a lawsuit for printing false/misleading information.

Despite your hysterics, yes, he is dropping out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_vVaZxTno, he's just using really irritating wording ("victory is not available to us...", "...campaign will soon wind down.", his "revolution" will move forward in a "new phase" and he talks about the "succeeding organization" to the campaign).

And did he say 'apatheting' at around 32 seconds???

Nice book plug (pre-orders at amazon.com!) and pushing of your new PAC and "freedom foundation". Gimme your money, gimme your money, gimme your money.

RIP RPcampaign.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Despite your hysterics, yes, he is dropping out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_vVaZxTno, he's just using really irritating wording ("victory is not available to us...", "...campaign will soon wind down.", his "revolution" will move forward in a "new phase" and he talks about the "succeeding organization" to the campaign).

The fact that I already saw this clip last night notwithstanding, you are reading WAY into his message. If Ron Paul was dropping out, he would just say so outright. Dr. Paul isn't one to beat around the bush. Ask Ben Bernanke.

he's just using really irritating wording ("...campaign will soon wind down.")

Which was immediately followed by, "But we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primary and to continue the caucus process in all remaining states by loyal volunteers." That doesn't sound like someone who is dropping out.

Also, why is he promoting a rally in D.C. on June 21 if he is dropping out?
listen to what he is actually saying, not what you want to hear.

[nittanyalum]

he specifically says the presidential campaign will NOT be planning the event in June in DC anymore, but he invites "others" to organize it (and he knows they're out there) and if his schedule allows, he'll try to attend. You must be listening selectively too.

And if you want to read his pandering for others to continue to drive money into his coffers for the continuation of his "revolution" as a serious bid for a presidential nomination, that's your delusion to grasp onto. He doesn't have to campaign for his congressional seat anymore, so why not keep his name out there through the efforts of others? Plus he's got that book coming out and he's starting up that PAC and Foundation. No such thing as bad publicity, right?

The man has only won 14 delegates. He may be turning down the lights on a dimmer, but the lights are going out.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

he specifically says the presidential campaign will NOT be planning the event in June in DC anymore, but he invites "others" to organize it (and he knows they're out there) and if his schedule allows, he'll try to attend. You must be listening selectively too.

If I am listening selectively, explain how does the political campaign not planning the DC rally equate to Ron Paul dropping out? For the record, the DC rally was initiated by the grassroots a while back; it was never initiated by the campaign to begin with.

The man has only won 14 delegates. He may be turning down the lights on a dimmer, but the lights are going out.

Paul has won more delegates that that; and that does not include delegates from such caucus states as Nevada and Louisiana (which the final delegate numbers for the National Convention has not been determined as of yet). I was also told that Paul has potential for amassing a significant number of delegates in Alaska, Maine, and Washington (the state, not DC).

[nittanyalum]

Sorry, 21. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri...orecard/#val=R

And the 3 states you mentioned carry a total of about 80ish delegates altogether. Your hopes are pinned on amassing a "significant number" of those?


ETA: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...&postcount=438

[KAPital PHINUst]

All I will say is this: After seeing how the MSM had marginalized Dr. Paul over the past 6 months, I take any story coming from them with a grain of salt. I have heard a plethora of conflicting interpretations on the CNN story from spokesman Jesse Benton.

That said: Until Paul's campaign (preferable Dr. Paul himself) says concisely and in no ambiguous terms that he is quitting the race, Dr. Paul is still campaigning for president, even if only on a smaller scale. Period, the end.

That said, Paul's campaign needs to put out a statement to this effect one way or the other on their site and/or a YouTube vid from Dr. Paul like right now.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Because with technology data can be more easily manipulated than with paper ballots and be less likely to leave an audit trail. I actually saw video of a congressional testimony for an electronic ballot contracting company where the contractor was being asked questions on whether the data could be manipulated and he was saying yes it could.

I wouldn't be so quick to give credence to electronic ballots if I were you.

I'll leave you all with this quote:

"Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." - Joseph Stalin.

Are you kiddding? Paper ballots can be shredded, burned, tossed into the trash, etc. With electronic ballots there IS an audit trail somewhere on the computer. And there is an audit trail if the data is manipulated.