Federal Tobacco Tax.

[Tom Earp]

While some may not beleive in smoking tobacco the tax that is proposed is very repressive.

The Congress is trying to put a 156% increase on tobacco of $6.10 a carton of cigarettes.

So, just what will this do?

1. Lose tax money as Kansas and Texas did.
2. Close Retail Stores such as mine and the people that work for them!
3. Close Wholesalers as has happened in my area-3 in 9 Months. The people that work for them are gone.
4. The Growers and their employees.
5. Drivers who deliver.
6. Manufactures with all of the people they employee.

While you may not smoke, think about the ramifications of tax money, Billions that will be lost. Where will it be picked up? Your pocket book!

Go to this web site and post:

www.NoCigTax.com.

[PM_Mama00]

Every business that closes puts more people out of jobs, and that includes the tobacco business.

Even though people are against smoking, they need to realize that we need these tobacco shops in our economy.

[sageofages]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Every business that closes puts more people out of jobs, and that includes the tobacco business.

Even though people are against smoking, they need to realize that we need these tobacco shops in our economy.

I guess onocologists, other doctors, nurses, hospitals and the funeral industry who deal with the fall out from smoking, then do too.

If the tax gets high enough that people can't afford to smoke, they quit. Then they take that money spent smoking and spend it somewhere else, and shore up another section of the economy.

[Kevin]

I'm not so sure how it's helpful to our economy for our Medicare and Medicaid programs to be paying out the nose for the health problems the smoking industry causes.

[PM_Mama00]

Ok, I see the error of my post. I didn't think about all the rest.

But I guess the fall out also keeps other occupations busy too.

I guess I just don't understand why smoking has become such as issue now when people have been smoking for hundreds of years. What did people do back when there weren't smoking sections in restaurants? Or when you could actually smoke in the emergency room?

[DeltAlum]

I'm gonna stay out of the argument. Nothing new will be said, most likely. I've still never smoked.

I did run across a very old TV commercial (from back when tobacco companies could advertise on TV.

The tag line was, "More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette.

My how times have changed.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm not so sure how it's helpful to our economy for our Medicare and Medicaid programs to be paying out the nose for the health problems the smoking industry causes.

This argument would make sense if the monies raised from those taxes actually went to Medicaid or Medicare for the treatment of tobacco related illnesses. However, it doesn't. It would make more sense to have tobacco users pay more for their health care (Medicare/medicaid taxes, health insurance premiums, etc).

I am never really clear on the goal of increasing tobacco taxes. If the goal is to get people to quit smoking, then why not just bite the bullet and make smoking illegal. Why keep farting around with it? Making more and more laws about when/where people can smoke and making smokers pay more and more to do it.

If the goal is to increase revenues, this has backfired on some states because, as they increase the tax, more people quit smoking and they end up getting fewer revenues in the long run.

And, what happens if we manage to eradicate smoking completely? What is going to be taxed then? High fat foods? Trans fats? Sugar? If the goal is to make people pay for poor health decisions (ie. a punitive measure to deter unhealthy behaviors), then how about a lazy tax for people who don't exercise regularly? An STD tax for people who get an STD because they didn't use protection? How do you tax the people with hypertension who eat a ton of salt? The diabetics who don't follow their diet? The heart patients who don't exercise and eat right?

I can truly say at this point that I'm a non-smoker (as of Mother's Day) and I'm glad that this new tax won't affect me, but I have no doubt that after they are done attacking the smokers, there will be another group to go after and another tax to come around.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by AGDee

And, what happens if we manage to eradicate smoking completely? What is going to be taxed then?....

Lol brass knuckles and guns because if that many people had to quit smoking, it'd probably raise the crime rate! Seriously have you ever seen someone who just quit smoking? Some people could probably kill someone.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Lol brass knuckles and guns because if that many people had to quit smoking, it'd probably raise the crime rate! Seriously have you ever seen someone who just quit smoking? Some people could probably kill someone.

Umm, yeah, that's me.. STILL! Seriously, I hate the world, cry at the drop of a hat and have not felt truly relaxed since May 13th. I constantly feel like I want to wring someone's neck. I have this tight feeling in my throat and clench my teeth all the time. I go through a tin of cinnamon IceBreakers a day and have gained 10 pounds. It's the hardest thing I've ever ever done in my entire life. I can't even take it one day at a time.. it's more like 8 hours at a time. On my way to work, I tell myself that if I really HAVE to have one, I can buy a pack after work. After work, I tell myself that if I really HAVE to have one, I can get a pack before bed. Before bed, I tell myself that if I really HAVE to have one, I will get a pack before work and then the cycle starts again. At first, it felt like a huge victory when I made it without buying a pack but now, I just can't help but wonder when it's going to get better. Will I ever be able to just sit and watch tv again? I have to stay busy CONSTANTLY and it's exhausting.

[DeltAlum]

My dad smoked heavily for close to seventy years.

He was put on oxygen full time a year or so ago, and had to quit cold turkey.

That wasn't easy, but it was better than blowing himself up.

[AGDee]

My mom had quit 5 years before her COPD diagnosis and a good 10 years before she was on oxygen. My next door neighbor though? He was put on oxygen last month and turns it off to smoke, which I think is nuts, but I think it's a good example of what a horrible addiction those things are.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AGDee

This argument would make sense if the monies raised from those taxes actually went to Medicaid or Medicare for the treatment of tobacco related illnesses. However, it doesn't. It would make more sense to have tobacco users pay more for their health care (Medicare/medicaid taxes, health insurance premiums, etc).

I am never really clear on the goal of increasing tobacco taxes. If the goal is to get people to quit smoking, then why not just bite the bullet and make smoking illegal. Why keep farting around with it? Making more and more laws about when/where people can smoke and making smokers pay more and more to do it.

If the goal is to increase revenues, this has backfired on some states because, as they increase the tax, more people quit smoking and they end up getting fewer revenues in the long run.

You're really missing the point here - many studies that have been done show that smokers would be willing to pay MUCH more than they currently pay for cigarettes - up to something like $10/pack before you'd see an appreciable decline in smoking.

So really, the risk of "backfiring" is quite low - and the 'hardcore' smoker is being quietly replaced by the informed casual smoker, and as a result, cigarette sales have actually increased even while companies are forced to promote stop-smoking campaigns, etc. I'm not sure why you think that increasing total revenues has no effect on health care - there's no doubt in my mind that, no matter how the money is slated, a net increase only aids in reducing the load for 'mandatory' expenditures such as people dying from smoking-related illness.

Cigarette taxation is about maximizing revenues, pure and simple - so there's little chance Tom will go out of business, assuming he fits a profitable business model. You'll see the same number of packs sold, just with more whining about the cost (even as they shell out).

It's economics, not the politics of sin.

[Tom Earp]

Wrong KSig RC, Tom will go out of business and become a welfare person.

Oh, who cares some will say, it will not only be me but many others.

When Kansas and Texas raised their taxes many did go out of business and so did wholesalers. But who cares? Maybe the people who work for me and all of the rest.

Where do thay go? Oh, I guess no one cares. These people were my friends and I cared about them.

How many more and what will be the next taxed issues? Who then will be out of work and lives hurt.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Wrong KSig RC, Tom will go out of business and become a welfare person.

Oh, who cares some will say, it will not only be me but many others.

When Kansas and Texas raised their taxes many did go out of business and so did wholesalers. But who cares? Maybe the people who work for me and all of the rest.

Where do thay go? Oh, I guess no one cares. These people were my friends and I cared about them.

How many more and what will be the next taxed issues? Who then will be out of work and lives hurt.

Gross margin on cigarettes is something like 17-20%, right? It's clear that your interest here isn't the smoker, it's keeping your high-margin cash cow viable. So it would make sense that people are switching to 'value' brands to offset the cost, right?

Except they're really not, are they Tom? The actual increase in movement has been in specialty brands, imports, and etc. This was what I meant by "profitable model" before - there's still tons of money for you to make . . . you'll just have to figure out where. Remember: the number of cigarettes sold has fallen nationwide, but actual dollars spent has increased. Sure, this is partly due to tax increases, but it shows the raw cap on available disposable income hasn't been reached. Studies have shown that it's not even close to being reached. The sky isn't falling, no matter how poorly your friends performed in your anecdotal evidence.

If anything, you should direct your anger at the state taxes, which are hilariously high compared to the obscene amount of money they get from previous tobacco litigation.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by AGDee

My mom had quit 5 years before her COPD diagnosis and a good 10 years before she was on oxygen. My next door neighbor though? He was put on oxygen last month and turns it off to smoke, which I think is nuts, but I think it's a good example of what a horrible addiction those things are.

Let me guess. He goes to the casino too? MGM? Or this guy is my uncle. Lol true stories.