White men in NPHC

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

Are you saying that a white person can't be for a cause that black people are for? That seems ludicrous to me. I know plenty of sororities on my campus that are predominantly white, yet have members of other races as sisters. It works out fine. Yet, if one of these "white" sororities denied membership to a woman of another race just because of her race, I guarantee you there would be so many lawsuits that your head would spin. Why is there such a double-standard for an organization that consists primarily of people of a race other than white? You can deny membership to your organization and it seems fine. If a sorority on my campus did that, they'd be sued/suspended/kicked off, etc...I'm just not understanding why there is a double-standard...

It is pointless to ask these type of questions or to really even try to discuss it.......especially on greekchat.

White people can't join HBGLOs because we don't "understand" what they are trying to promote and the purposes, etc. etc. blah blah blah.

.....but then when fraternities, especially in the South, have all white members it's because we are all racists, bigots, KKK lovers. God forbid we pledge who we want to.

[Laak 315]

that's definitely what it seems like to me...I just wish someone would explain the double-standard to me...

[RedefinedDiva]

What I don't understand is why, because of ONE person's opinion on what SHE would do in HER org., it has become a double standard perpetuated by EACH AND EVERY D9 org.? Are you honestly trying to come here and state that out of the x amount of chapters that your orgs. have, there is not ONE person that claims they woudn't admit a non-white member? Are you kidding me? For every chapter of your respective orgs. that likes to model itself after the UN and accpet members from all countries, races, nationalities, etc., there is one chapter that has remained all white. Get real.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by RedefinedDiva

What I don't understand is why, because of ONE person's opinion on what SHE would do in HER org., it has become a double standard perpetuated by EACH AND EVERY D9 org.? Are you honestly trying to come here and state that out of the x amount of chapters that your orgs. have, there is not ONE person that claims they woudn't admit a non-white member? Are you kidding me? For every chapter of your respective orgs. that likes to model itself after the UN and accpet members from all countries, races, nationalities, etc., there is one chapter that has remained all white. Get real.

When did I say it was something perpetuated by "EACH AND EVERY D9 org."

Don't think I did. I'm pretty sure I said that was how it is on Greekchat, which, in my opinion, is absolutely true.

...and no, obviously I can't speak for the thousands upon thousands of members of SAE. I have never heard anyone say openly that they would not admit a black person. I have heard people, and I agree with them because I feel the same way, say that they have yet to meet a black person that would fit in with my chapter and others that are similar.

[RedefinedDiva]

I didn't say that YOU said it. And if you know that you didn't say it, that beginning portion of your comment was unnecessary.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm all for intent being questioned, but if a person can never satisfy you based on their skin color... I disagree with that.

Legally, sure. Ethically? Morally? I don't agree with it. Particularly when it goes against the values of the organization...but when your organization says it welcomes women of all races and creeds (as mine does) you should follow that.

Intelligent thinking and honest people would not based any decisions on skin color. Especially if an interest shows characteristics that the D9 seeks.

Aren't you admonishing us for making our own organization's choices?

Do you really think that most non-African Americans stroll up to our "areas" and say they are interested?

Couldn't it be that folks of a different ethnic group automatically are interacting or hanging out with African Americans and feel much more comfortable in this setting and decide to pursue a membership?

Since NIC/NPC membership drives are inherently different and we do not actively recruit members, and our membership intake extends joining invitations to college graduates, then by default, one who wants to pursue membership would have to take a completely different course of action than what is done in traditional greek organization.

So, when you say to us "tsk tsk on you D9, you have irresponsible individual members", how do you think that belittling makes us feel?

[Laak 315]

I'm entitled to my belief that it is easier for a greek organization consisting of race(s) other than caucasian to get away with not allowing caucasians in their fraternity/sorority than it is for a predominantly caucasian fraternity/sorority to not allow people of other race(s) into their organization, in regards to legality. Considering the fact that on my college campus, certain members of a sorority consisting of a race other than caucasian have blatantly said that caucasian girls are not allowed (at public events). A fraternity on my campus consisting of a race other than caucasian has said there would be "very small chance" that a caucasian male would be allowed to join. I know not a single person in my fraternity nor my friends in other fraternities/sororities that have said this about people of other races other than caucasian. That does not mean that the people in the organizations that I don't know haven't said these things, but I haven't heard them, so therefore this is what forms my opinion/belief. You getting very defensive at my opinions/beliefs is not helping sway my opinion that this is the way it is at many college campuses in the U.S.

[Laak 315]

Also, no clarification has been given as to why certain fraternities/sororities feel this way about caucasians joining other than the idea that we don't understand your "struggle". If you could further clarify this, that would be great.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I'm entitled to my belief that it is easier for a greek organization consisting of race(s) other than caucasian to get away with not allowing caucasians in their fraternity/sorority than it is for a predominantly caucasian fraternity/sorority to not allow people of other race(s) into their organization, in regards to legality. Considering the fact that on my college campus, certain members of a sorority consisting of a race other than caucasian have blatantly said that caucasian girls are not allowed (at public events). A fraternity on my campus consisting of a race other than caucasian has said there would be "very small chance" that a caucasian male would be allowed to join. I know not a single person in my fraternity nor my friends in other fraternities/sororities that have said this about people of other races other than caucasian. That does not mean that the people in the organizations that I don't know haven't said these things, but I haven't heard them, so therefore this is what forms my opinion/belief. You getting very defensive at my opinions/beliefs is not helping sway my opinion that this is the way it is at many college campuses in the U.S.

First to whom are you refering to?

Second, your purview of what you think is happening on your campus is not the world's view. So basically, we have yet to care what you think or your opinions.

And just because you say it does not make it so. Are you trying to us Black folks "tsk, tsk about our organizations we were forced to form because we were not allowed to join 100 years ago"? Or to put it bluntly, are you saying Black people who are United States citizens do not have the freedom to associate with whomever they wish?

I could care less what NIC or NPC organizations do for I am concerned about my own Sorority. But to invalidate my Sorority on the eve of my Centennial--well that is foul of you.

As such, you need to PM me and we can deal with your issues offline, no sense in making personal attacks that are not germaine to this discussion.

[L.O.C.K.]

Every organization has bigots and people who are against "outsiders" joining - regardless if they are NIC, NPC, NPHC, NALFO, NAPA, NMGC, etc, etc.

Do you have to work harder to prove yourself as "worthy" as a non-minority in a minority organization? Depends on the chapter. However, from personal experience, people will question your reason for joining a predominatly-Asian/Black/Latino/a organization.

Why? Well, these organizations are designed to serve specific communities unlike NPC/NIC orgs which are not "race/ethnic-specific". It is natural for people to wonder.

However, when deciding whether or not someone is qualified for an organization, race shouldn't matter. What matters is if they are going to uphold your Four Pillars or 5 Point Thrust or whatever the core ideals of each organization are. If they live the mission set out by the Founders, then that is what matters.

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

First to whom are you refering to?

Second, your purview of what you think is happening on your campus is not the world's view. So basically, we have yet to care what you think or your opinions.

And just because you say it does not make it so. Are you trying to us Black folks "tsk, tsk about our organizations we were forced to form because we were not allowed to join 100 years ago"? Or to put it bluntly, are you saying Black people who are United States citizens do not have the freedom to associate with whomever they wish?

I could care less what NIC or NPC organizations do for I am concerned about my own Sorority. But to invalidate my Sorority on the eve of my Centennial--well that is foul of you.

As such, you need to PM me and we can deal with your issues offline, no sense in making personal attacks that are not germaine to this discussion.

I think it's both hilarious and yet distasteful at the same time that you automatically think I am talking about black fraternities and sororities. That's quite racist of you to do so if you ask me, since you don't know what race(s) I was talking about. (It was not an African-American fraternity or sorority I was talking about btw.) Nowhere in my post did I address the organizations as "black" or "African-American". I addressed them as "races other than caucasian", so you are very clearly putting words in my mouth, which shows a lack of taste and class. As for you not caring about my "view on what is happening on my campus", you very obviously do care, otherwise you wouldn't have responded to my posting and started attacking it and me personally. As for "black people who are United States citizens not having the freedom to associate with whomever they chose", I would like to thank you for validating my point exactly. They do indeed have that right because it is easier for organizations of another race (notice again, I did not state "African-American") other than caucasian to exclude membership to caucasians than it is for a predominantly caucasian organization to exclude membership to "non-caucasians." How many times have I already stated this in this thread? I never invalidated your sorority...once again you are putting words in my mouth that clearly haven't been spoken, which is also distasteful. I am starting to believe you are just trying to get a rise out of me. Unfortunately for you, I know how to hold a civilized debate so that will not happen. I asked a simple question which to the best of my knowledge, STILL has not been answered. If you don't remember the question, it regards the double-standard. You seem to have some serious defense issues since you keep stating that I am making personal attacks on you when I am clearly not. I am making attacks on organizations that are clearly racist for not accepting people of other races into their fraternity/sorority just because they "wouldn't fit in because of their race." (This includes predominantly caucasian organizations, predominantly black organizations, predominantly indian organizations, predominantly asian organizations, etc...) As for you stating that what is happening on my campus is not happening on other campuses, that may be true. (It's not since I know two larger universities in my state that have similar problems) But, because it is happening on MY campus, I have a right to speak up and let people know that it IS happening. "So basically, we have yet to care what you think or your opinions." You don't have to care what I think. You don't have to change how your organization recruits or accepts new members. But it's precisely this attitude that makes your organization come across as racist. If that's fine by you then that's fine by me and we'll have no problems. Unfortunately, if my fraternity had this attitude/viewpoint, we'd be sued and/or kicked off campus. I guess that's the difference between our organizations.

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

However, when deciding whether or not someone is qualified for an organization, race shouldn't matter. What matters is if they are going to uphold your Four Pillars or 5 Point Thrust or whatever the core ideals of each organization are. If they live the mission set out by the Founders, then that is what matters.

That's exactly what I am trying to say...race should not be an issue...but very clearly from the above posts, it is very prevalent in how these certain fraternities/sororities recruit their members...

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

That's exactly what I am trying to say...race should not be an issue...but very clearly from the above posts, it is very prevalent in how these certain fraternities/sororities recruit their members...

But we don't recruit members. As AKA_Monet said earlier, this is a very important thing that you have to understand when you're looking at this issue. BGLOs, and most AGLOs, LGLOs, etc., do not actively recruit members. If you are interested in membership, you seek them, rather than, as with NPC and IFC groups, the orgs seeking you.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

That's quite racist of you to do so if you ask me, since you don't know what race(s) I was talking about.

she's being racist from her post? are you serious? do you even know what that term means?

i think you're trying to hard to call someone racist, classless, tacky ect.

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

But we don't recruit members. As AKA_Monet said earlier, this is a very important thing that you have to understand when you're looking at this issue. BGLOs, and most AGLOs, LGLOs, etc., do not actively recruit members. If you are interested in membership, you seek them, rather than, as with NPC and IFC groups, the orgs seeking you.

So then why is it so hard for these organizations to accept the fact that someone of another race wishes to be a part of them if it is the person seeking out the organization and not the other way around. If anything, it almost seems like these organizations should be somewhat flattered (maybe that's not the right word, but I can't think of a better one right now) that a person of a different race wishes to join their organization. That person obviously doesn't have a problem with diversity, whereas the organizations that push that person away simply because of their race very obviously have a problem with diversity.