Woman dies while in-flight; Airline disputes relative's tale

[texas*princess]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23327116/?GT1=10856

NEW YORK - American Airlines on Monday insisted it tried to help a passenger who died after complaining she could not breathe, and disputed the account of a relative who said that she was denied oxygen and that medical devices failed.

The airline said the oxygen tanks and a defibrillator on the flight from Haiti were working and noted that several medical professionals on the flight, including a doctor, tried to save the passenger, Carine Desir, 44, who had heart disease.

"American Airlines, after investigation, has determined that oxygen was administered on the aircraft, and it was working, and the defibrillator was applied as well," airline spokesman Charley Wilson said Monday.

Basically the relative is saying the flight attendants waited too long and that the oxygen tanks were empty... American says the flight attendants acted admiraly and according to how they were trained and that the equipment was working fine..

It is a scary situation all around... no telling how it is going to end... (i.e. if the relative will try suing or something)

I will say though I hope no one was actually sitting in the First Class cabin. The woman's body was put in the aisle of the FC cabin with a blanket over it for the remainder of the flight.

I realize they probably don't have a 'contengency plan' of what to do in case someone passes during a flight.. but really? That must have been disturbing.

The medical examiner did say the woman died of complications of heart disease & diabetes.

[UGAalum94]

If the oxygen tanks were empty or they delayed in providing oxygen, it seems pretty bad, but oxygen isn't going prevent you from dying of heart disease, I wouldn't think.

The passenger's relative is saying the defibrillator malfunctioned, but the airline says it wouldn't work on her because her heart rhythm was too weak to shock back into natural rhythm.

I think it's sad the woman is dead no matter what, but I'm not sure that you can reasonably expect that airline personnel are going to save your life if you have a heart attack or a heart-disease related event mid-flight. I'll bet there's going to be a suit, so maybe we'll find out more about what obligation the airline has.

It would be a little freaky to have a dead body on the flight near you, but I'm not sure what the options are. There were probably fewer people and more space in 1st class.

ETA: Random literary moment: there's a short story, I think it might be by Willa Cather, about a women whose husband dies while they are on a cross country train trip and she decides that she has to pretend he's sleeping for the rest of the trip to the porters, conductors, etc, so they don't make them get off in the middle of nowhere to see an undertaker and wait for the next train. She knows that it's the difference between being home in less than a day and not being home for a week. I don't know that I could pull it off. I think I would be freaked out so much.

[texas*princess]

I really hope that the doctors/nurses that tried to help the woman on the flight don't get pulled into the suit if there is one since they were individuals who intervened to help the woman.

If they do get pulled into a suit, I would imagine it would make doctors/nurses think twice about trying to help someone in a situation like that for fears of getting sued for unsuccessful attempts to save an individual.

[AOII Angel]

From reading the reports on MSN.com, this woman was not feeling well all day and probably should not have flown. Unfortunately, you cannot treat a heart attack in the air. Defibrillators only work if you are in V Fib...she may not have been. Oxygen would have helped her be comfortable, but I don't think the airlines have a mandate to have O2 available. They aren't a hospital. You can't blame the airline for a patient's bad health and its complications. I also don't expect a patient's family member to be able to give a reliable accounting of the events given the stress of the situation. Also, if the family member has no medical training, how would he know if things were not done correctly?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

I really hope that the doctors/nurses that tried to help the woman on the flight don't get pulled into the suit if there is one since they were individuals who intervened to help the woman.

If they do get pulled into a suit, I would imagine it would make doctors/nurses think twice about trying to help someone in a situation like that for fears of getting sued for unsuccessful attempts to save an individual.

Aren't there some built in protections for people under these circumstances?

[SWTXBelle]

Are there federal "Good Samaritan" laws?

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Are there federal "Good Samaritan" laws?

I had to dig up my book from my CPR class (which I just renewed two months ago so it is a newly printed book), the Good Samaritan laws are state laws. There is a law in all 50 states, varying slightly by state. I have no idea how the law is applied however in a flight from Haiti to NY.

The one thing I always took away from the GS laws is that you are expected to act 'within the scope' of your training. In other words, if you have only seen CPR done on TV and you break someone's ribs while attempting to mimic, you most likely would not be protected. That I think is something many people wouldn't be aware of.

Sorry for the slight hijack...

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by pbear19

I had to dig up my book from my CPR class (which I just renewed two months ago so it is a newly printed book), the Good Samaritan laws are state laws. There is a law in all 50 states, varying slightly by state. I have no idea how the law is applied however in a flight from Haiti to NY.

The one thing I always took away from the GS laws is that you are expected to act 'within the scope' of your training. In other words, if you have only seen CPR done on TV and you break someone's ribs while attempting to mimic, you most likely would not be protected. That I think is something many people wouldn't be aware of.

Sorry for the slight hijack...

thanks for the info.. i wasn't sure if anything like that would exist to protect those who tried to help.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

I really hope that the doctors/nurses that tried to help the woman on the flight don't get pulled into the suit if there is one since they were individuals who intervened to help the woman.

That would be terrible and a perfect example of "no good deed goes unpunished".

[AGDee]

Airline employees are simply that, airline employees. They cannot be expected to be paramedics as well. Basic first aid/CPR? Sure. Anything beyond that, it's the risk you take when you are somewhere that paramedics/911 can't respond.

If there is a lawsuit and they win, it's as ridiculous as the woman who spilled hot coffee on herself.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Airline employees are simply that, airline employees. They cannot be expected to be paramedics as well. Basic first aid/CPR? Sure. Anything beyond that, it's the risk you take when you are somewhere that paramedics/911 can't respond.

If there is a lawsuit and they win, it's as ridiculous as the women who spilled hot coffee on herself.

Several links about the Mc Coffee case:
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
"The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 --
or three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called
McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.

No one will ever know the final ending to this case.

The parties eventually entered into a secret [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]settlement[/COLOR][/COLOR] which has never
been revealed to the public, despite the fact that this was a public
case, litigated in public and subjected to extensive media reporting.
Such secret settlements, after public trials, should not be condoned.
-----
excerpted from ATLA fact sheet. © 1995, 1996 by Consumer Attorneys of
California"
http://www.okbar.org/public/judges/mcdonaldsoutline.pdf

[Tom Earp]

American Airlines says they did nothing wrong!

Makes me want to fly them, NOT!

How in the heck can oxygen bottles be empty?

Something is wrong with this picture!

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

American Airlines says they did nothing wrong!

Makes me want to fly them, NOT!

How in the heck can oxygen bottles be empty?

Something is wrong with this picture!

I doubt that the tanks were empty. Like Peppy said, the relative didn't seem to understand what was going on, all the knew was that the two different oxygen tanks they tried and the "box" didn't help the woman.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

I doubt that the tanks were empty. Like Peppy said, the relative didn't seem to understand what was going on, all the knew was that the two different oxygen tanks they tried and the "box" didn't help the woman.

Point well taken!

Eye witnesses can see things differently of course.

But, the question would be the timing of lack of help in a proper manner.

She may have already have been deceased.

CPR has changed from the old 5-3 as I was trained with the Ski Patrol and is now more breaths to compressions.

So, who is going to admit who was in error?

[ZTABullwinkle]

The part in the article Dolphin linked to had a quote that concerned me.

Carine Desir, 44, was pronounced dead Friday on a nearly full Haiti-to-New York flight by a pediatrician who said he tried to use the plane's defibrillator on her as she faded, but her pulse was already too weak for it to work.

Maybe I am reading into it too much, but this is what I know of AEDs. They look for a "shockable" rhythm (usually pulseless v-tavh or v-fib). It will not shock if it is "asystole" (flat line). So, I wonder what the actual rhythm was that it didn't work.