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  #1  
Old 12-02-2003, 10:05 AM
Love_Spell_6 Love_Spell_6 is offline
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Red face Rodney King 2??

Monday, December 1, 2003 Posted: 5:47 PM EST (2247 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/1...in.custody.ap/

A videotape shows police officers struggling with Nathaniel Jones.


CINCINNATI, Ohio (AP) -- A 350-pound black man died after being struck repeatedly by police wielding metal nightsticks, and the mayor said Monday a videotape showed that the officers were defending themselves.

The cause of death was under investigation.

Black activists say the death Sunday of Nathaniel Jones, 41, was another example of brutality involving Cincinnati police.

The fatal shooting of an unarmed 19-year-old black man by a white police officer in April 2001 prompted four days of rioting in the city.

The disturbances resulted in dozens of injuries, more than 800 arrests and widespread property damage.

"How many of our people have to die before the city decides to do something about it?" said Nathaniel Livingston Jr. of the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati.

The Rev. Daymond Lynch, a leader of the Black United Front, said he was reserving judgment until more was known about the case.

But, Lynch said, "if police officers act improperly, we expect them to be held accountable."

The officers who were at the scene -- five whites and one black -- were placed on administrative leave, which is policy while investigators examine any police encounter that results in a death.

The confrontation was videotaped by a camera on a police cruiser. After seeing the video, Mayor Charlie Luken rejected activists' demand that he force police Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. to resign.

"What I saw was a ... man violently attacking a police officer in a manner that put the lives of police officers at risk," Luken said.

"While the investigations will continue, there is nothing on those tapes to suggest that the police did anything wrong."

Luken said he agreed with the initial police assessment that the officers who struggled with Jones defended themselves as they were trained to do when attacked.

An employee at a White Castle fast-food restaurant called 911 early Sunday to report that a man had passed out on the grass outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance," according to police radio transmissions.

The first two officers to arrive, Baron Osterman and James Pike, were shown on the video striking Jones after he was warned to stay back.

Jones then lunged at one of the two white officers and knocked him down. As they struggled to handcuff him, the officers kept yelling, "Put your hands behind your back."

They called for an ambulance when Jones appeared to be in distress. He died within minutes of arriving at University Hospital, Assistant Chief Richard Janke said. The reason for Jones' behavior was not known, Janke said.


The cause of Jones' death was under investigation.
The treatment of the officers involved in the incident by department leaders upset Roger Webster, president of the Fraternal Order of Police in Cincinnati.

"The officers were treated as criminals," he told a reporter. "They were read their rights. In that video, what did these officers do wrong?"

Black activist groups staged an economic boycott of Cincinnati after the 2001 shooting of Timothy Thomas, who was wanted on prior charges of fleeing police when he ran from officers.

Officer Stephen Roach shot him in a dark alley and was later cleared at trial of criminal charges.

Civil rights leaders blamed what they called years of abuse by the police department for the anger in the black community. Thomas was the 15th black suspect killed by police since 1995.

A federal investigation of that shooting, requested by the city, resulted in Cincinnati's April 2002 agreement to tighten use of force policies and to improve handling of citizen complaints against the police.

The agreement, signed by U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, specifies when and how police officers should use force, when and how they can engage in foot pursuits, and how they deal with those who are mentally ill.

Last February, a white officer chased and fatally shot a black man who was spotted running from a store that had been broken into, police said.

The police, Hamilton County prosecutor and the Citizen Complaint Authority review panel concluded that the shooting was justified because the suspect was beating the officer with his nightstick.
************************************************** *

What do you all think?? Has anyone seen the video?? This is going to get real ugly real fast
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2003, 10:11 AM
1savvydiva 1savvydiva is offline
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Unhappy

Whoa!

I haven't seen the videotape, and honestly, I don't know that I would want to. Things like that get me upset. *SMH*
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2003, 10:24 AM
Love_Spell_6 Love_Spell_6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1savvydiva
Whoa!

I haven't seen the videotape, and honestly, I don't know that I would want to. Things like that get me upset. *SMH*
Its pretty graphic. Its all over the news..so if you watch tonight..you're bound to see it..

Although the guy was on PCP...he shouldn't have died. if I'm an officer...and its between my life and the guy I'm trying to detain...i gotta choose me.
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2003, 10:55 AM
TonyB06 TonyB06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Its pretty graphic. Its all over the news..so if you watch tonight..you're bound to see it..

Although the guy was on PCP...he shouldn't have died. if I'm an officer...and its between my life and the guy I'm trying to detain...i gotta choose me.
This is my hometown so this situation has been personal to me for a long time. This sort of thing has been going on for years and it's past time for federal intervention into this department. A friend's cousin is head of the Sentinals (Cincy's black officers union); trust me there are issues w/ that department.

That said, this dude this week caused some of this himself. Toxicology reports said cocaine and PCP were in his system; that plays a part that's his fault. But why does it take six, fully weaponed, attired officers to put down an out-of-shape, apparently sickly dude? Shouldn't their hand-to-hand training allow them to shut him down before having him die. I mean, if he pulls a gun and you have to shoot him, ok. But a beatdown by 6? I had the same feeling watching the Rodney King tape. Why it take 20 to beat somebody down?

And none of this excuses the shooting an unarmed man (Tim Thomas/ April 2001) in the back as he was fleeing arrest from a bench warrant for failing to appear for traffic violations. That is what touched off the 2001 Riots. People, even those messing up their own lives with anti-social behavior, will only take so much isht before they respond.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2003, 11:46 AM
Love_Spell_6 Love_Spell_6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TonyB06
This is my hometown so this situation has been personal to me for a long time. This sort of thing has been going on for years and it's past time for federal intervention into this department. A friend's cousin is head of the Sentinals (Cincy's black officers union); trust me there are issues w/ that department.

That said, this dude this week caused some of this himself. Toxicology reports said cocaine and PCP were in his system; that plays a part that's his fault. But why does it take six, fully weaponed, attired officers to put down an out-of-shape, apparently sickly dude? Shouldn't their hand-to-hand training allow them to shut him down before having him die. I mean, if he pulls a gun and you have to shoot him, ok. But a beatdown by 6? I had the same feeling watching the Rodney King tape. Why it take 20 to beat somebody down?

And none of this excuses the shooting an unarmed man (Tim Thomas/ April 2001) in the back as he was fleeing arrest from a bench warrant for failing to appear for traffic violations. That is what touched off the 2001 Riots. People, even those messing up their own lives with anti-social behavior, will only take so much isht before they respond.
I pray that your hometown makes it through this situation riot-less. The situation in 2001 was definitely wrong..but I think it was a little different.

Its just hard for me to defend this brother because he's high on Coke and PCP. 350 pounds with an enlarged heart and yelling "White Boy" "Redneck" and "My mamma taught me this." The police officers were yelling, "Get Back" " Get down" etc.. I am definitely NOT saying the guy should have died....but how do you defend him when he's lunging at and hitting the cops?? I mean we all have to be accountable for our actions don't we??

I guess I"m kinda split on this issue. It didn't look to me like the cops were trying to just brutalize this guy for no reason. The cops know they have a camera in the police cruiser...and this guy wasn't hit in the head one time..But he definitely should NOT have died Its just so sad..

Either way...this incident just isn't going to be good for race relations in Ohio...or anywhere for that matter...
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2003, 11:51 AM
1savvydiva 1savvydiva is offline
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I agree with you LoveSpell, maybe they could've used a stungun or something, I don't know. I still don't want to see the video tho. *smh*
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2003, 11:54 AM
lovelyivy84 lovelyivy84 is offline
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I saw the tape, and I am torn also.

The man attacked the cops first. He was HUGE. They had to subdue him.

But the beating that followed was just....savage. The force they used seems so excessive. Once the man is on the ground, don't you stop beating him?

He died because of that beating. I understand that he started the confrontation, but the police were wrong.
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Last edited by lovelyivy84; 12-02-2003 at 12:01 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-31-2008, 09:00 AM
doogur doogur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelyivy84 View Post
I saw the tape, and I am torn also.

The man attacked the cops first. He was HUGE. They had to subdue him.

But the beating that followed was just....savage. The force they used seems so excessive. Once the man is on the ground, don't you stop beating him?

He died because of that beating. I understand that he started the confrontation, but the police were wrong.
The police were WRONG? This is pretty audacious thing to say, and let me tell you I'm NO fan of the Cincinnati Police!

The guy lunged at police. They told him 16 times to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to resist.

I ask you this. The guy was hyped up on drugs, was beligerent, and attacked a police officer. What if he got a hold of the officers gun? Sound outrageous? Well it happened with a female officer who was on patrol in her car. A man forced his way in, got her gun and shot her.

Nathaniel Jones put the police in a no-win situation, then we have ridiculously thoughtless comments such as yours.

If they used a gun to subdue him, they were screwed. If they used a taser to subdue him, they were screwed (in his state, that probably would've killed him, too). Batons are pretty much all that's left, and those tend not to work too well on a guy whose 350 pounds. The autopsy showed only a few bruises and no internal organ injuries. There were no blows above the shoulders.

It's mind-numbing what you just said. Simply mind-numbing. Maybe it's because Mr. Jones lived blocks away from my house (his street crosses mine) and this situation is personal to me, and I see the sht the police have to put up with here.
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2008, 09:10 AM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogur View Post
The police were WRONG? This is pretty audacious thing to say, and let me tell you I'm NO fan of the Cincinnati Police!

The guy lunged at police. They told him 16 times to put his hands behind his back, and he continued to resist.

I ask you this. The guy was hyped up on drugs, was beligerent, and attacked a police officer. What if he got a hold of the officers gun? Sound outrageous? Well it happened with a female officer who was on patrol in her car. A man forced his way in, got her gun and shot her.

Nathaniel Jones put the police in a no-win situation, then we have ridiculously thoughtless comments such as yours.

If they used a gun to subdue him, they were screwed. If they used a taser to subdue him, they were screwed (in his state, that probably would've killed him, too). Batons are pretty much all that's left, and those tend not to work too well on a guy whose 350 pounds. The autopsy showed only a few bruises and no internal organ injuries. There were no blows above the shoulders.

It's mind-numbing what you just said. Simply mind-numbing. Maybe it's because Mr. Jones lived blocks away from my house (his street crosses mine) and this situation is personal to me, and I see the sht the police have to put up with here.
If it's so personal to you, you need to deal with it on your own -- not by googling the man's name and dredging up a five year old post. Seriously, get real.
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  #10  
Old 05-27-2008, 04:02 PM
doogur doogur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I View Post
If it's so personal to you, you need to deal with it on your own -- not by googling the man's name and dredging up a five year old post. Seriously, get real.
Funny thing about a message board is that no one forces anyone to read anything. It's kind of a free will thing. I mean no one forced you to read my post, much less respond. I don't have that power over you. No one does. Yet you chose to spend your time doing so.

That's no one's fault...but your own. Work on your rationality...please.

And you make a good point, albeit unintentionally. The internet lives forever. People still write articles on this topic and come upon these boards much the same way I did.

Quite frankly, I was having a discussion about this very topic elsewhere, which to this day is very relevant, very important.

Seriously...get real.
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2008, 04:16 PM
Senusret I Senusret I is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogur View Post
Funny thing about a message board is that no one forces anyone to read anything. It's kind of a free will thing. I mean no one forced you to read my post, much less respond. I don't have that power over you. No one does. Yet you chose to spend your time doing so.

That's no one's fault...but your own. Work on your rationality...please.

And you make a good point, albeit unintentionally. The internet lives forever. People still write articles on this topic and come upon these boards much the same way I did.

Quite frankly, I was having a discussion about this very topic elsewhere, which to this day is very relevant, very important.

Seriously...get real.
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2003, 12:03 PM
Love_Spell_6 Love_Spell_6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lovelyivy84
I saw the tape, and I am torn also.

The man attacked the cops first. He was HUGE. They had to subdue him.

But the beating that followed was just....savage. The force they used seems so excessive. Once the man is on the ground, don't you stop beating him?

He died because of that beating. I understand that he started the confrontation, but they were wrong.

I can't understand how SIX (although that's a very good number ) cops could not detain him. Had the guy just stayed down...I would say flat out that the cops were wrong...but he kept getting up...and he kept getting up!

It's funny because you know the cops knew this was going to be ugly because when the camera in their police cruiser cut off....they turned it back on...I guess they knew how people would perceive this incident...

The fact that this guy died just seems to overshadow whether the cops were just doing their job...or were acting excessive...
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2003, 12:11 PM
TonyB06 TonyB06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
I pray that your hometown makes it through this situation riot-less. The situation in 2001 was definitely wrong..but I think it was a little different.

Its just hard for me to defend this brother because he's high on Coke and PCP.
...no I'm not defending the deceased at all; he could/should have complied better (I saw the tape), nor am I attacking the PD in this incident. I'm just saying this particular police department with its history really hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt, IMO, in these types of situations.

The "investigation" will tell all, I hope.
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Old 12-02-2003, 12:12 PM
lovelyivy84 lovelyivy84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TonyB06
...no I'm not defending the deceased at all; he could/should have complied better (I saw the tape), nor am I attacking the PD in this incident. I'm just saying this particular police department with its history really hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt, IMO, in these types of situations.

The "investigation" will tell all, I hope.
That's a good point. They have very little credibility when it comes to police brutality. That department is notorious.
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It may be said with rough accuracy that there are three stages in the life of a strong people. First, it is a small power, and fights small powers. Then it is a great power, and fights great powers. Then it is a great power, and fights small powers, but pretends that they are great powers, in order to rekindle the ashes of its ancient emotion and vanity.-- G.K. Chesterton
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2003, 01:59 PM
delph998 delph998 is offline
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I saw the tape, and I personally think they took it to another level! I mean dang, they didn't have to beat that man that badly. Now he was wrong for attacking them, and he was a big dude, but the way they attacked him was terrible.
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