Throwing without Knowing?

[snowflakemom]

https://www.kappakappagamma.org/kapp...t.aspx?id=3988

Kappa Kappa Gamma will not show hand signs on their website. Your thoughts?

[33girl]

Couldn't agree more. The whole handsign trend among NPC groups is asinine and needs to vanish. Yes there are some NPCs that do have official hand signs that have been around for decades - but let them do that and you do you instead of a poor imitation. It reminds me of groups trying to come up with their version of KD's AOT and the like.

[Griffins&Quills]

I think it's an overreaction. I think the hand sign pics are cute.

[DrPhil]

KKG should do what works for KKG.

But I found this article dumb, culturally insensitive (which is humorous considering the purpose of the article), and borderline offensive.

[ASTalumna06]

The article is pretty ridiculous, and so are some of the arguments both for and against hand signs in the comments. People are getting extremely bent out of shape, all because their sorority chooses not to post hand signs on social media. In the grand scheme of things, is this really a big deal?

Maybe I'm missing something...

[33girl]

She went into more detail than she needed to. All she needed to say was that these signs aren't anything official, have no basis in tradition or ritual and therefore the national org doesn't want to post pictures of them so as not to muddy the waters.

[DrPhil]

Yes, she should've said that.

Instead she came across as being unfamiliar with the existence of non-NPC women's GLOs; mocked the GLOs that use hand signs; and announced she's on the late bus for just discovering gang signs (I hope her "expert" is a fictional character she created in an attempt to validate her message).

[33girl]

Also....she went to Pitt. The school is not tucked away in a bucolic small town or suburban enclave. It's in a city setting.

[Sen's Revenge]

Paraphrasing one of my facebook friends:

KKG didn't care when their members were culturally appropriating hand signs from NPHC organizations, but suddenly they care when they are vaguely associated with white hate groups.

The perception of racism is more important than the actual racism. Okay.

But another layer to this is the reaction of NPC alumnae members... "I've always been uncomfortable with this..." they say. Let's be honest - you're uncomfortable because it doesn't seem refined, and it doesn't seem refined because you know it's something black people do.

[robinseggblue]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

Paraphrasing one of my facebook friends:

KKG didn't care when their members were culturally appropriating hand signs from NPHC organizations, but suddenly they care when they are vaguely associated with white hate groups.

The perception of racism is more important than the actual racism. Okay.

But another layer to this is the reaction of NPC alumnae members... "I've always been uncomfortable with this..." they say. Let's be honest - you're uncomfortable because it doesn't seem refined, and it doesn't seem refined because you know it's something black people do.

This is so true. I get very uncomfortable when I see hand signs I know are appropriated from NPHC organizations.

Alpha Phi I'm looking at you.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

Paraphrasing one of my facebook friends:

KKG didn't care when their members were culturally appropriating hand signs from NPHC organizations, but suddenly they care when they are vaguely associated with white hate groups.

The perception of racism is more important than the actual racism. Okay.

But another layer to this is the reaction of NPC alumnae members... "I've always been uncomfortable with this..." they say. Let's be honest - you're uncomfortable because it doesn't seem refined, and it doesn't seem refined because you know it's something black people do.

Culturally the line when appropriation is homage and when we regard it as theft or insult is interesting to me.

Do you object to NPC groups having hand signs period because recent NPC hand signs come out of the NPHC tradition so are an inappropriate appropriation in all circumstances, or is it more that you feel that the NPC versions of hand signs were invented in a spirit that mocked the original NPHC hand signs?

I think I understand what you are getting at, but it also seems like there's a little damned if you do; damned if you don't aspect to your post. You seem to simultaneously indicated that NPC groups shouldn't appropriate hand signs because the signs are a thing that black people did first, but on the other hand a failure to embrace appropriating the signs is also suspect because it might reflect a reluctance to do something because black people did it first. What NPC members apparently need to do is not throw hand signs but make sure they aren't throwing them for the right reasons, which for some reason amuses me in a medieval scholasticism kind of way.

ETA: I got around to reading the linked article after I read the thread and commented. The context and spirit of your comment is much clearer to me now. That article was a complete unforced error, and your paraphrased facebook comment seems spot on.

[Sen's Revenge]

And many NPHC organizations have LONG had prohibitions of showing pictures of hand signs in publications and official social media. It has only been very recently that several orgs have relented and embraced hand signs as a benign part of the culture of the orgs.

And by very recently I mean like this year.

[amIblue?]

I don't even know what to think about this one. I was going to share it the other day when I read it, but I got busy with work and didn't get around to it yet.

In general, I don't like the use of (most) hand signs for (most) NPC groups. So, in that respect, I agree with the new stance from HQ. I don't think that it has anything to do with being "too refined" as Sen mentioned (although I do think that there is that element among some NPC women). The cultural appropriate aspect is bothersome as well.

For me, I think it boils down to the fact that we didn't do it when I was an active, so it just doesn't seem to be a part of my experience with Kappa. (Get off my lawn!) I also think that the hand signs that I've seen associated with Kappa look stupid because I usually can't figure out what the heck they're trying to show. (Seriously, I usually turn my head sideways a bit to try to figure them out.) There is no consistent Kappa hand sign. I've seen attempts at making letters, keys, stupid owl eyes. If we're going to have a hand sign, let's have ONE.

I also think that the message was delivered in a rather heavy handed and culturally insensitive way, but knowing what I know about how people get dramatic when changes are communicated, I can see that HQ felt that they had to deliver some reason beyond "it's not part of our ritual, so stop." They just didn't think enough about how they were sending the message. Unless it's part of the unanimous agreements, we don't need to bring in any other GLOs when making decisions about our policy.

Honestly, I think they could have just stopped using the photos with the hand signs quietly without making a big PR statement about why. It's not like they use every photo that is submitted. There will still be plenty of shots of people showing the back of their spirit shirts or beach shots, etc. When the actives see the kinds of shots that are being chosen, that's what they'll submit. It's not like these photos are usually particularly creative in composition.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Honestly, I think they could have just stopped using the photos with the hand signs quietly without making a big PR statement about why. It's not like they use every photo that is submitted. There will still be plenty of shots of people showing the back of their spirit shirts or beach shots, etc. When the actives see the kinds of shots that are being chosen, that's what they'll submit. It's not like these photos are usually particularly creative in composition.

Yes. The article kind of feels like someone hearing something and then going "Oh My Lands, we have to stop this nonsense!" whilst clutching their pearls and swooning without really thinking through it. To be honest, I searched for images of what they referenced and it took some time to find one. Even then, I wouldn't have connected the two.

Either the trend will die out and be replaced by something different (way back when, sororities used to have their own individual whistles that members used to recognize one another, or other hand signals that are no longer used) or it will be accepted and one singular "symbol" will be designated - though still not as part of our ritual.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Yes. The article kind of feels like someone hearing something and then going "Oh My Lands, we have to stop this nonsense!" whilst clutching their pearls and swooning without really thinking through it. To be honest, I searched for images of what they referenced and it took some time to find one. Even then, I wouldn't have connected the two.

Either the trend will die out and be replaced by something different (way back when, sororities used to have their own individual whistles that members used to recognize one another, or other hand signals that are no longer used) or it will be accepted and one singular "symbol" will be designated - though still not as part of our ritual.

There's apparently a petition going around to get HQ to reconsider. Oh my. Glad I'm only serving on a local level.

FWIW - I think we *technically* still have a whistle. I couldn't tell you what it is, though.

ETA: I am totally cracking up at all the current actives' comments about throwing away "long-standing" traditions.