GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Risk Management - Hazing & etc.
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Risk Management - Hazing & etc. This forum covers Risk Management topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorder Prevention, Liability, etc.

» GC Stats
Members: 329,743
Threads: 115,668
Posts: 2,205,121
Welcome to our newest member, loganttso2709
» Online Users: 2,018
3 members and 2,015 guests
Cookiez17, JayhawkAOII, M0rga010
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:07 PM
djpsk21 djpsk21 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
Is hazing the best way?

I am wanting to help change a new member program so that hazing is completely phased out. It is not "so bad" as it could be, but it still exists nonetheless.

This being the case, what other people/groups out their have dealt with this transition before?

How did you deal with sentiments such as:
  • "this is the way it has always been"
  • "it teaches respect"
  • "they have to earn it...its the best worst time of your life, but when your fnished you really feel like you have earned something"
  • "If we eliminate that part of the pledge process, they won't be nearly as respected"
  • "I did it, so should they"
  • "It's not so bad...and its gotten much better"
  • etc
What was your "pledging" process like? I am looking for new and innovative ideas.

Please HELP!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Elephant Walk Elephant Walk is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Occupied Territory CSA
Posts: 2,237
It depends on how you define hazing.
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car – accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance – it happens very far away – way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:14 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,519
It's really hard for us to answer without knowing more about what the "hazing" entails, and whether you're a national (who's not following the nationally mandated program and wants to get on board) or a local (who doesn't have as strict of rules, but wants to change for your own good).

I will say that the WORST way to go about eradicating hazing is to completely demean any merit that the current pledge program has. Unless you do nothing but beat them and make them drink 24/7, every program has SOMETHING positive underlying it. Focus on the positive and try to get back to it, rather than harping on the negative.
__________________
It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:19 PM
agzg agzg is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: but I am le tired...
Posts: 7,277
Fraternity or sorority?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:25 PM
djpsk21 djpsk21 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
I am talking about a fraternity. I know about and am familiar with national standards (i've given myself a crash course recently). I guess what I am more looking for is a way to eliminate the hazing altogether. Even something as simple as wallsits, which don't seem that bad, seem to contrast the national standard because it is something phyhscial being asked of them.

Has someone gone through a successful program that did not involve hazing, but they still felt that stong sense of brotherhood/sisterhood? You know, the one that everyone says "hazing" is supposed to instill? I think if I can help introduce a new program that can garner the same "results", there will be more buy-in.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:27 PM
djpsk21 djpsk21 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
Moreover, if anyone feels comfortable doing so, please share what your pledging experience was like..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:43 PM
knight_shadow knight_shadow is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,146
1. Don't bid worthless people. That way, you won't need to 'weed them out'

2. Follow your national guidelines and procedures
__________________
*does side bends and sit-ups*
*doesn't lose butt*

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:46 PM
thetygerlily thetygerlily is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,047
This was posted recently and has great answers to those questions:
http://www.sigmanu.org/documents/forty_answers.pdf

And yes, I went through a successful program that did not involve hazing but still felt that strong sense of sisterhood. Hazing breeds fear, resentment, and inbred idiocy. Holding sisterhood-building events (or brotherhood in your case) enables the new members to get to know one another, have fun, and live the principles of the new organization. Most GLOs were founded on sisterhood/brotherhood, academics, service, support, compassion, etc. Not hazing. We were not founded on wall sits and the ability to do wall sits does not make you a better member.

What mine looked like... We met weekly to learn about the sorority and chapter. We had casual lunches and dinners with our pledge class & actives. Actives decorated our doors with balloons and welcome messages. We had a sleepover. We did crafts projects (painted pottery, made jewelry, etc). We played games. We got to know people. We had fun. Nothing new and innovative there- we just weren't hazed.
__________________
And in the years after, with tears or with laughter, we'll always remember our dear Kappa days.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-2010, 01:45 PM
rhoyaltempest rhoyaltempest is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by djpsk21 View Post
I am wanting to help change a new member program so that hazing is completely phased out. It is not "so bad" as it could be, but it still exists nonetheless.

This being the case, what other people/groups out their have dealt with this transition before?


How did you deal with sentiments such as:
  • "this is the way it has always been"
  • "it teaches respect"
  • "they have to earn it...its the best worst time of your life, but when your fnished you really feel like you have earned something"
  • "If we eliminate that part of the pledge process, they won't be nearly as respected"
  • "I did it, so should they"
  • "It's not so bad...and its gotten much better"
  • etc
What was your "pledging" process like? I am looking for new and innovative ideas.

Please HELP!
What kind of organization is this? If this is a national organization, I would think that you have an official national process that you should be following - nothing more, nothing less. Follow it.
__________________
ΣΓΡ
"True Beauties Wear 10 Pearls and 2 Rubies"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-11-2010, 02:14 PM
djpsk21 djpsk21 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
There is a national standard and that is what i am wanting move towards. On the same note, I love my brothers and this brotherhood. There is always resistance to change, that is obvious. I am looking for either advice or what others have successfully gone through or implemented this kind of change.

I want to create change but not at the expense of losing half of my brothers. They really are not bad people, they just don't know anyother way. That's why I am posting on a public forming and seeking assistance/guidance.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-12-2010, 11:09 PM
EE-BO EE-BO is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by djpsk21 View Post
There is a national standard and that is what i am wanting move towards. On the same note, I love my brothers and this brotherhood. There is always resistance to change, that is obvious. I am looking for either advice or what others have successfully gone through or implemented this kind of change.

I want to create change but not at the expense of losing half of my brothers. They really are not bad people, they just don't know anyother way. That's why I am posting on a public forming and seeking assistance/guidance.
I suspect this is not your intent, but your second paragraph comes off as sounding like you think you are an inherently better person than a lot of guys in your chapter. You may have a good idea here depending on your specific circumstances, but with age and experience I can tell you that marketing an idea is even more important than the idea itself when it comes to successful implementation. Do a Google search on the war between Beta and VHS many years ago for a good example. Beta was a superior product, but it is VHS players that prevailed until DVDs came along.

Defining hazing is very important for you at this point. You need to come up with a concise definitition of exactly what you want to eradicate and why. One suggestion I would have is to do another Google search- or check your college's Greek Life site- and read the hazing laws in your state.

I have read many such laws and while they provide specific examples of what COULD be hazing, the overriding spirit of such laws gets to the intent of the activity and what it actually does to pledges in terms of forcing them to break the law or be truly "humiliated".

Forcing a pledge who is 18 years old to drink until he is drunk and then drive a vehicle is a no-brainer. Major law violations. But who really does that? These black and white scenarios are rarely the reality.

Let's take something that is a bit more gray- requiring a pledge to learn fraternity lore. It is a necessary exercise- but in many laws it is cited as an example of hazing depending on how the requirement is enforced.

A pledge is required to learn, each week, fraternity history. Do you consider this hazing?

Let's say a pledge must take a test each week covering material he was supposed to learn the prior week. Hazing?

If the pledge takes the test and gets below a 70, he has to do 20 pushups. Is this hazing?

If the pledge gets below a 70 on the test and is banned from social events until he gets a 70 or greater on this test- hazing?

If the pledge gets below a 70 on the test and is placed before a kangaroo court of actives who scare him into thinking he will get depledged if he does not get a 70 or better on a future retest- is this hazing?

The pledge gets below a 70 on the test and is pestered by actives when he is at the house with questions on the same material, and minor punishments like pushups or washing cars until he starts getting the answers right. Is this hazing?

The pledge gets below 70 on a lore test and is automatically dropped from pledgeship. Not hazing- rather he failed to meet a basic requirement. This is the option that has you 100% free and clear of ever being accused of hazing, but is this the tone you want to set? I can tell you this is not how things work in the real world- which fraternities are supposed to mimic and prepare members for professional success.

These are the questions I would suggest you ask yourself as you plan your new pledging program. As my last example showed- there is a way to make pledges prove their worth by their effort to become members without ever doing anything that anyone could ever consider hazing- but it also means acting in a way that is counter to what fraternities are all about.

One other thing to consider- remember that INTENT is the most important thing when looking at acts that could be considered hazing.

When I was a pledge, one night we had to do a mini tour in neckties and our underwear- and nothing else- and serenade several sorority houses. They loved it- and it made a good story for all of us to reminisce on later.

Some might consider this hazing, but it was not hazing in the illegal sense of the term. Those who were too uptight to participate would not only make bad pledges, but were also probably not suited for any kind of membership in any kind of group where people have a little fun at their own expense to make the world a little more interesting, even if only for a few moments.

When it comes to dangerous hazing activities, I will tell you that I think alcohol is the absolute #1 contributor to pledge activities gone wrong.

Three simple rules can save a chapter from the worst 99% of the time;

1. Noone is forced to drink.
2. Sober active executive officers are present at every pledge activity and have the guts, chapter respect and/or physical presence to prevent anything from getting out of hand.
3. Noone- and I mean noone- gets into a car or is left alone (especially in the wild) after having anything to drink.

You take care of this- and you have covered the three most common hallmarks of situations that result in non-productive pledge activities, injury and death.

I for one would love to see a very honest and open conversation about hazing on this forum- and the seeds of it are here already. But OP- please consider your position in greater detail and report back. There are many people here with good answers, but we need to know where you draw the line and your underlying reasons for drawing that line.

Hope this is helpful.
__________________
The GC Master Beta
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-11-2010, 03:04 PM
BluPhire BluPhire is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 725
Haven't I seen you post in The Root?

Your name looks familiar.
__________________
Ever wonder what goes through the my mind when I'm drooling? Click here and find out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Xa4bHcJu8
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-11-2010, 04:43 PM
djpsk21 djpsk21 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
I am not sure what the Root is
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Gusteau Gusteau is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,791
So, you're a good person and you want to improve your chapter - awesome, congratulations!

I know a lot of guys like you, in fact I've been a guy like you, and the biggest mistake good guys on a mission make is in their delivery. A lot of times it's easy to get caught up in your good ideas and forget that you need to translate it to people the right way. Don't be abrasive, don't overwhelm people - take baby steps, don't insult something that they think is right and working and "made" them into good brothers. Like 33girl said, don't demean something that has made a personal impact in their life, just try to translate it into something that is legal and in line with the values of your organization. Finding a program isn't hard, your national organization has given you that, what you need is to gently convince your chapter that it is going to have more successful results than what you're doing now.
__________________
"Delta Chi is not a weekend or once-a-year affair but a lifelong opportunity and privilege"
- Albert Sullard Barnes
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:38 AM
djpsk21 djpsk21 is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
Thank you for your reply...it is very insightful and helpful
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hazing Aduladi Locals 35 11-12-2007 03:34 PM
Three Donna coaches fired following hazing accusations (HS Football hazing) LXAAlum Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 2 03-17-2005 05:47 PM
Article re:Hazing-'Hazing' is a nice word for white kids who act violently NinjaPoodle Sigma Gamma Rho 1 05-24-2003 07:19 AM
Hazing: Is it always bad? Beggar Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 66 03-22-2002 06:12 PM
Hazing James Risk Management - Hazing & etc. 15 10-09-2001 06:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.