Coat of Arms vs. Crest

[naraht]

I've found that my National Fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) is *very* confused about the terms "Coat of Arms" and "Crest", using the terms interchangably to refer to the Coat of Arms.

Heraldically, the crest only applies to anything attached to the top of the helmet in a Coat of Arms.

Does anyone else else have this issue?

Randy

[Senusret I]

Yes, this is often a confusing issue in Alpha Phi Alpha as well. Our "coat of arms" is properly called "The Fraternal Design."



I ALWAYS call it the Fraternal Design, not only because that's how I was taught, but because when you say Fraternal Design, there should be no mistake.

---------------------------

The Shield of the Fraternity is used on shingles, official correspondence, banners, etc -- any official fraternity thing used by officers or chapters to represent the organization and IS NOT wearable.


Most people call this the shield. But is it really a shield? I don't know. I often call it the "seal" because of its uses, but that may be wrong too.

[exlurker]

People who are interested in GLO heraldry might want to be on the lookout for an old used copy of Emily Butterfield's College Fraternity Heraldry.

It includes heraldic descriptions of GLO armorial bearings, black and white pictures (like line drawings), discussion / definition of terms, and on and on. It also mentions and sometimes briefly describes "coats of arms," "crests," whatever you want to call them, that aren't, strictly speaking, correct by heraldic standards.

The book (a paperback, at least the one I have) obviously is not up-to-date -- it was published in the 1930s, I think -- but is still interesting.

And yes, this is THE Emily Butterfield who was, among many other things, one of the founders of Alpha Gamma Delta.

See Michigan Women's Hall of Fame entry at (gasp):

http://hall.michiganwomenshalloffame...95~216~166~187

[agzg]

Originally Posted by exlurker

And yes, this is THE Emily Butterfield who was, among many other things, one of the founders of Alpha Gamma Delta.

I don't question whether we have the right heraldry as far as our Armorial Bearings - she was indeed the creator of much of it.

I do, however, know that many members use crest, armorial bearings, etc. interchangeably. It doesn't bother me.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by agzg

I don't question whether we have the right heraldry as far as our Armorial Bearings - she was indeed the creator of much of it.

I do, however, know that many members use crest, armorial bearings, etc. interchangeably. It doesn't bother me.

But all of our official documents refer to the armorial bearings.

Emily was such an interesting woman. I would have loved to have known her. I went to the Michigan Women's Hall of Fame when it first opened the exhibit about her and on the year of Alpha Gam's centennial our International President put a medallion on her grave, which I also attended. She was also a painter and many of her paintings are displayed at the Alpha Beta chapter house at the University of Michigan, as well as at our IHQ. Yes, there are no doubts that our armorial bearings are correct regarding heraldry! She assisted several other GLOs in adjusting theirs to be correct as well. Fascinating woman.

[UofM-TKE]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Emily was such an interesting woman. I would have loved to have known her. I went to the Michigan Women's Hall of Fame when it first opened the exhibit about her and on the year of Alpha Gam's centennial our International President put a medallion on her grave, which I also attended. She was also a painter and many of her paintings are displayed at the Alpha Beta chapter house at the University of Michigan, as well as at our IHQ. Yes, there are no doubts that our armorial bearings are correct regarding heraldry! She assisted several other GLOs in adjusting theirs to be correct as well. Fascinating woman.

The TKE National site has this note about the Coat of Arms (not crest):

The TKE Coat-of-Arms ....
Modified slightly several times during the early years of Tau Kappa Epsilon, the present Coat-of-Arms, adopted in 1926, was designed by Dr. Carlton B. Pierce and Ms. Emily Butterfield.

[DrPhil]

In other words, what nonmembers usually see in reference to Alpha Phi Alpha is the Fraternal Design (coat of arms).

Terms that often need clarification for members (some of these are different words for the same thing):
Coat of arms
Shield
Crest
Seal
Badge

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In other words, what nonmembers usually see in reference to Alpha Phi Alpha is the Fraternal Design (coat of arms).
-

Yes, except in those rare occasions that you find a pre-1950 rogue fraternity sweater with the "wrong" emblem on it.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by naraht

I've found that my National Fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) is *very* confused about the terms "Coat of Arms" and "Crest", using the terms interchangably to refer to the Coat of Arms.

Heraldically, the crest only applies to anything attached to the top of the helmet in a Coat of Arms.

Does anyone else else have this issue?

It's not just a GLO thing, it's an English usage thing. "Crest" is commonly used as a synonym for coat of arms on both sides of The Pond, despite the fact that it is an incorrect usage. A synecdoche, perhaps?

GLOs are no different from the rest of society. Some GLO are careful to use coat of arms, others use crest, others use both, and still others (like Alpha Phi Omega or Alpha Gamma Delta) use a different phrase altogether, like "The Fraternal Design" (thanks, Sen) or "Armorial Bearings."

The heraldist in me typically insists on using "coat of arms" (or simply "arms"). But the pragmatist in me is inclined to refer to specific GLO arms using the terminology employed by that GLO if it matters to them.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Most people call this the shield. But is it really a shield? I don't know. I often call it the "seal" because of its uses, but that may be wrong too.

Within traditional heraldic design, it's definitely a shield -- a somewhat stylized shield, but a shield nonetheless.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Terms that often need clarification for members (some of these are different words for the same thing):
Coat of arms
Shield
Crest
Seal
Badge

Heraldically speaking, none of these are different words for the same thing, though in common usage they may be. "Shield" (escutcheon) and "crest" are components of a "coat of arms."

A "badge" (heraldically) is a seperate (and simpler) emblem that may be related to but is distinct from a coat of arms, and that serves as a personal or collective emblem.

A "seal" properly speaking is an emblem that may or may not include part of all of a coat of arms (or badge) that is used to attest to the authenticity of a document.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Heraldically speaking, none of these are different words for the same thing, though in common usage they may be.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I know, I know.

But since this whole thread is predicated on correct usage vs. common usage, I figured I might as well say it.

[IVY BEAUTY]

ok

[Gusteau]

I saw this thread title and thought, "Where's MysticCat?" LOL

In Delta Chi it is correctly referred to as the Coat of Arms. Unfortunately many members refer to it as the crest. Most of the Associate Members in my chapter, however, learn very quickly not refer to it incorrectly around me lest they incur the wrath of God.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I saw this thread title and thought, "Where's MysticCat?" LOL

I know -- I thought of you, too. The title just sucked us in, didn't it?

Originally Posted by naraht

Heraldically, the crest only applies to anything attached to the top of the helmet in a Coat of Arms.

I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but a coat of arms can, and often does, have a crest without a helmet. Among GLOs, think Beta, FIJI, Sigma Chi, Kappa Sig, ATO . . . .

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I know -- I thought of you, too. The title just sucked us in, didn't it?
I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but a coat of arms can, and often does, have a crest without a helmet. Among GLOs, think Beta, FIJI, Sigma Chi, Kappa Sig, ATO . . . .

Then again a lot of GLOs violate a lot of the rules of heraldry in their CoAs.