» GC Stats |
Members: 329,720
Threads: 115,665
Posts: 2,204,950
|
Welcome to our newest member, kingallen |
|
 |
|

10-19-2008, 01:15 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In my own little world ;)
Posts: 354
|
|
Colin Powell Endorses Obama on 'Meet the Press'
This is definitely not an average election! I was shocked to see/hear long-time Republican, Colin Powell endorse Barack Obama...but i was even more surprised to hear his negative thoughts about how the McCain camp is handling the campaign.
Video/Article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27265369/
Quote:
Powell endorses Obama for president
Republican ex-secretary of state calls Democrat ‘transformational figure’
BREAKING NEWS
WASHINGTON - Former Secretary of State Colin Powell endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., for president on Sunday, criticizing his own Republican Party for what he called its narrow focus on irrelevant personal attacks over a serious approach to challenges he called unprecedented.
Powell, who for many years was considered the most likely candidate to become the first African-American president, said in an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he was not supporting Obama because of his race. He said he had watched both Obama and his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, for many months and thought “either one of them would be a good president.”
But he said McCain’s choices in the last few weeks — especially his selection of Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his vice presidential running mate — had raised questions in his mind about McCain’s judgment.
“I don’t believe [Palin] is ready to be president of the United States,” Powell said flatly. By contrast, Obama’s running mate, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, “is ready to be president on day one.”
Powell also said he was “troubled” by Republican personal attacks on Obama, especially false intimations that Obama was Muslim and Republicans’ recent focus on Obama’s alleged connections to William Ayers, the founder of the radical ’60 Weather Underground.
Stressing that Obama was a lifelong Christian, Powell denounced Republican tactics that he said were insulting not only to to Obama but also to Muslims.
“The really right answer is what if he is?” Powell said, praising the contributions of millions of Muslim citizens to American society.
“I look at these kind of approaches to the campaign, and they trouble me,” Powell said. “Over the last seven weeks, the approach of the Republican Party has become narrower and narrower.”
In an interview Sunday on Fox News, McCain said he was not surprised by the announcement.
“I’ve always admired and respected General Powell,” said McCain, who cited the endorsements he had received from former Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger, Alexander Haig, James Baker and Lawrence Eagleburger. “We have a respectful disagreement.”
Bolstering Obama’s international credentials
Powell, a retired Army general who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under the first President Bush before becoming secretary of state in the current administration, is one of the most highly decorated military officers of modern times and an admired figure in both parties. The Obama campaign is likely to cite the endorsement as an answer to critics and undecided voters who have questioned the foreign policy credential of Obama, a first-term senator whose national experience amounts to four years in the Senate.
Powell said a major part of his decision to turn his back on his own party was his conclusion that Obama was the better option to repair frayed U.S. relations with allies overseas.
“This is the time for outreach,” Powell said, saying the next president would have to “reach out and show the world there is a new administration that is willing to reach out.”
In particular, he said, he welcomed Obama’s president to “talk to people we haven’t talked to,” a reference to Obama’s controversial statement that he would be open to direct diplomacy with Iranian leaders.
“I think that [Obama] has a definite way of doing business that will serve us well,” Powell said.
[More of the Article]
|
__________________
PHI MU alumnae
LOVE, HONOR, TRUTH
Dreams do come true when your an American.
Congratulations President and Vice President Elect, Barack Obama and Joe Biden!
Last edited by pinksirfidel; 10-19-2008 at 01:21 PM.
|

10-19-2008, 01:27 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
|
|
I mentioned this where we were discussing it in the other thread, but it's really not that shocking (taking into account Powell's break with the current administration, and the low risk/high reward of endorsing Obama at this stage in the campaign).
|

10-19-2008, 01:47 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In my own little world ;)
Posts: 354
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid
I mentioned this where we were discussing it in the other thread, but it's really not that shocking (taking into account Powell's break with the current administration, and the low risk/high reward of endorsing Obama at this stage in the campaign).
|
KSig, I was surprised to here Powell speak about his distaste for the Republican party moving more to the right, with the selection of Gov Palin. I always thought of Powell being a more right leaning conservative... it appears he leans more to the middle--A position I once recognized McCain to be in. Does this surprise you, or has Powell always thought this way?
__________________
PHI MU alumnae
LOVE, HONOR, TRUTH
Dreams do come true when your an American.
Congratulations President and Vice President Elect, Barack Obama and Joe Biden!
|

10-19-2008, 01:52 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 5,372
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksirfidel
KSig, I was surprised to here Powell speak about his distaste for the Republican party moving more to the right, with the selection of Gov Palin. I always thought of Powell being a more right leaning conservative... it appears he leans more to the middle--A position I once recognized McCain to be in. Does this surprise you, or has Powell always thought this way?
|
This is kind of BS. By what measure is Sarah Palin further to the right than Bush?
(maybe by limiting government spending or having more respect for civil liberties, but I don't think that's what Powell has in mind.)
Last edited by UGAalum94; 10-19-2008 at 02:48 PM.
|

10-19-2008, 02:04 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksirfidel
KSig, I was surprised to here Powell speak about his distaste for the Republican party moving more to the right, with the selection of Gov Palin. I always thought of Powell being a more right leaning conservative... it appears he leans more to the middle--A position I once recognized McCain to be in. Does this surprise you, or has Powell always thought this way?
|
Powell's pretty moderate - he's pro-choice, pro gun-control, and foreign policy-wise he's almost right down the middle. I'm not sure about his economic views, but otherwise he's about as moderate as it gets.
ETA: I think his military background and the fact he's Republican lead people to overestimate how conservative he really is.
Last edited by KSigkid; 10-19-2008 at 02:09 PM.
|

10-19-2008, 02:19 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Occupied Territory CSA
Posts: 2,237
|
|
I've never thought Colin Powell to be Republican.
At least he's pro-fascist now.
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
|

10-19-2008, 02:52 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Home.
Posts: 8,261
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
I've never thought Colin Powell to be Republican.
At least he's pro-fascist now.
|
How exactly does endorsing the liberal candidate make Colin Powell "pro-fascist," especially since fascism opposes liberalism and supports strong nationalism and preparedness for war at all times?
Last edited by Munchkin03; 10-19-2008 at 03:05 PM.
|

10-19-2008, 03:10 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Occupied Territory CSA
Posts: 2,237
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03
How exactly does endorsing the liberal candidate make Colin Powell "pro-fascist," especially since fascism opposes liberalism and supports strong nationalism and preparedness for war at all times?
|
It also encourages control of it's population through any means possible.
Obamas progressive taxation and willingness to assume more control over the wealth of a nation and with that, the freedom of a nation is fascism. Money is the means to live, the means to eat. If he assumes himself the dictator of what it is to live, that is fascism. Furthermore, his want to control medicine and health of the nation through Universal Health care which makes him even further in control of the American populace. I suppose you could claim him a Communist, but perfect Commies are for the eventual tearing down of the state.
Absolutely disgusting (although McCain is not much better, I always see economic control as a far worse thing than moral control)
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
|

10-19-2008, 03:19 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Home.
Posts: 8,261
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
It also encourages control of its population through any means possible.
|
This is true, but only to a point. Fascism--at least in its ideal form--endorses control of a population by very specific means (usually by extreme nationalism and militarism, and not by "any means possible." Fascism is also opposed to Communism and Socialism, by the way.
It seems to me that people tend to use the term not as a way to connect a politician's views to those of Hitler or Mussolini (textbook fascists), but as a slur against a political opponent.
|

10-19-2008, 03:31 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 9,328
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03
It seems to me that people tend to use the term not as a way to connect a politician's views to those of Hitler or Mussolini (textbook fascists), but as a slur against a political opponent.
|
Not to go on too much of a threadjack, but this has been an argument of political scholars for quite a long time. George Orwell wrote an article on the subject in the 1940s: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
|

10-19-2008, 03:34 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 5,372
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03
This is true, but only to a point. Fascism--at least in its ideal form--endorses control of a population by very specific means (usually by extreme nationalism and militarism, and not by "any means possible." Fascism is also opposed to Communism and Socialism, by the way.
It seems to me that people tend to use the term not as a way to connect a politician's views to those of Hitler or Mussolini (textbook fascists), but as a slur against a political opponent.
|
I agree with you on this, and I don't think that the Bush=Hitler rhetoric by some helped any.
I got irritated about the Bush as a fascist rhetoric a few years ago*, and spent time thinking about it: even the methods and ideologies of Hitler and Mussolini aren't really as close in terms of economic systems as maybe one would think. And they sure as heck don't apply to either of the mainstream two party candidates in this election.
*not that Bush was great, but we were a far cry from fascist by any stretch of the imagination, and yet I knew people who really felt there were strong parallels. There are actually probably stronger parallels with fascism now after the bailout, depending on how one interprets "corporativismo."
Last edited by UGAalum94; 10-19-2008 at 03:47 PM.
|

10-19-2008, 03:49 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In Mombasa, in a bar room drinking gin.
Posts: 896
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03
Fascism is also opposed to Communism and Socialism, by the way.
|
Nazi stands for "National Socialist Party" FYI, and economically it was a very Socialist movement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia "Nazi" article
"In place of ordinary profit incentive to guide the economy, investment was guided through regulation to accord to the needs of the State. The profit incentive for business owners was retained, though greatly modified through various profit-fixing schemes: Fixing of profits, not their suppression, was the official policy of the Nazi party. However the function of profit in automatically guiding allocation of investment and unconsciously directing the course of the economy was replaced with economic planning by Nazi government agencies. Government financing eventually came to dominate the investment process, which the proportion of private securities issued falling from over half of the total in 1933 and 1934 to approximately 10 percent in 19351938. Heavy taxes on business profits limited self-financing of firms. The largest firms were mostly exempt from taxes on profits, however government control of these were extensive enough to leave only the shell of private ownership."
...
Taxes and subsidies were also used in order to direct the economy.
|
Windfall profits tax, anyone?
__________________
"I put my mama on her, she threw her in the air. My mama said son, that's a mother buckin' mare."
|

10-19-2008, 04:35 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Occupied Territory CSA
Posts: 2,237
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03
Fascism is also opposed to Communism and Socialism, by the way.
|
In practice, this is wrong.
Fascism = in practice Communism
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the other great Commies of the 20th century were fascists. Especially by your standards of nationalism and readiness to go to war. F.A. Hayek said that "Socialism can be cut of any wood. A socialist can go through stages of fascism, theoretical communism, democratic socialism, etc".
This Machine kills Fascists.
I've become a big Woody Guthrie fan of late, especially the redo of his songs by Billy Bragg and Wilco in Mermaid Avenue.
__________________
Overall, though, it's the bigness of the car that counts the most. Because when something bad happens in a really big car accidentally speeding through the middle of a gang of unruly young people who have been taunting you in a drive-in restaurant, for instance it happens very far away way out at the end of your fenders. It's like a civil war in Africa; you know, it doesn't really concern you too much. - P.J. O'Rourke
|

10-19-2008, 04:41 PM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: location, location... isn't that what it's all about?
Posts: 4,206
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Walk
It also encourages control of it's population through any means possible.
Obamas progressive taxation and willingness to assume more control over the wealth of a nation and with that, the freedom of a nation is fascism. Money is the means to live, the means to eat. If he assumes himself the dictator of what it is to live, that is fascism. Furthermore, his want to control medicine and health of the nation through Universal Health care which makes him even further in control of the American populace. I suppose you could claim him a Communist, but perfect Commies are for the eventual tearing down of the state.
Absolutely disgusting (although McCain is not much better, I always see economic control as a far worse thing than moral control)
|
I get hysterical
Hysteria
Oh, can you feel it (Oh can you feel it)
Do you believe it (Do you believe it)
It's such a magical mysteria
When you get that feelin' (When you get that feelin')
Better start believin (Better start believin')
Cause it's a miracle
Say you will, ooh babe
Hysteria when you're near
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TjPbeyHIO0
ETA: And I love munchkin's siggy
Last edited by nittanyalum; 10-19-2008 at 04:59 PM.
Reason: just saw munchkin's siggy & I heart it
|

10-20-2008, 11:27 AM
|
GreekChat Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: but I am le tired...
Posts: 7,277
|
|
For the record, from an international affairs perspective,
(On the Left) Marxism -> Liberalism -> Moderate <- Realism <- Fascism (On the Right)
Fascism and Marxism are on opposite ends of the political spectrum. It stands to reason, however, that Marxism is solidly on the left (as is the US Democratic Party), and Fascism is solidly on the right. This is why:
According to The Globalization of World Politics, 2nd ed.,
Quote:
As many historians and political theorists have pointed out, 'fascism' evades easy definition - arguably so incoherent as not to constitute a political philosophy at all. As practised[sic] in Italy, it entailed the establishment as a type of state popularity termed 'totalitarian' (especially after 1945), in which almost all aspects of its citizens' lives were subject to invasive regulation. In the sphere of employment, trade unions were abolished and 'corporations of employers and employees established, overseen by fascist bureaucrats. Whatever the legitimation in terms of harmonious labour[sic] relations, 'corporatism' in practice ensured that the interests of big business prevailed over those of organized labour.
|
Hitler's NAZI party did not practice the truest form of fascism - Mussolini did, at least ten years before Hitler's rise to power.
|
 |
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|