Another School, Another Mass Fraternity Suspension

[DaffyKD]

San Diego State has suspended all 14 IFC fraternities. This happened at the beginning of Homecoming Weekend.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...cial-gathering

[Kevin]

Schools will keep doing this until they are sued and have to pay someone.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Schools will keep doing this until they are sued and have to pay someone.

A better idea would be for the fraternities to change their behaviour and then no one would get suspended.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Titchou

A better idea would be for the fraternities to change their behaviour and then no one would get suspended.

We've been asking that of fraternities since they've existed. Why think that 18-21 year olds of this generation are suddenly going to be different/better?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Kevin

We've been asking that of fraternities since they've existed. Why think that 18-21 year olds of this generation are suddenly going to be different/better?

Because I keep hoping your alums would get the message

[navane]

Originally Posted by News Article

According to a close friend, it was a six foot drop that led to a head injury. The friend said she went over to his room, and put him back in bed that night. When she checked on him Thursday morning, Hernandez was reportedly foaming at the mouth with purple lips and yellowing-skin.

Wait.......what? A drunk man falls out of a 6-ft high bunk bed. His female friend "put him back in bed" and then checked on him the next morning? How in the world did one young woman get a drunk man back into his bed, getting him 6ft back up off the ground? Was she alone with him or did someone help her lift him up off the ground? Even if she placed him back in the lower bed, that's still an effort. Did she witness his fall out of bed? Did she see or hear him hit his head on the way down? Did she not decide to call 911 or for an R.A. or somebody?

The original news article says he was injured at a fraternity event. Was he injured there or in his room? I don't understand the facts surrounding this situation.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Because I keep hoping your alums would get the message

What's that supposed to mean? Our alumni are responsible for ensuring that 18-21 year old adults refrain from irresponsible alcohol use? Where has that ever been accomplished? Scientology?

It's bad enough that NPC groups push all of the liability for college partying onto fraternities, but to tut tut us about our alumni not getting the message is a bit beyond the pale. If all fraternal organizations adopted the alcohol policies of the NPC, I doubt many of our organizations would be around in 10 years time.

Alcohol isn't our raison d'etre, but it's part of college life and has been in U.S./European culture since college life existed.

[Rod D]

This report says the kid fell out of his bunk bed.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/14-fra...student-death/

[Kevin]

I didn't say it was a new thing. NPC groups would suffer in terms of membership if fraternal groups adopted NPC alcohol policies.

My point was that while you want to blame alumni for not getting the message, we know exactly what the issue is. Sigma Nu tried to pass an alcohol free housing initiative in the early 2000s. It was overwhelmingly defeated at our Grand Chapter. It's a non-starter, never going to happen.

We use education by mandating members take the alcohol.edu course every single year (maybe every semester?)

No amount of education, well-meaning rules, or threats is going to stop 18-21 year old people from overconsuming and doing stupid things. It's a force of nature.

What you can control at the end of the day is how well your organization reacts when someone does the stupid thing. That's where alumni can be helpful. It's also where alumni can be very unhelpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keTbsSfMOdI&t=47s [whether that was allowed by alumni or perpetuated, it wins that category forever].

But blaming alums for 18-21 year old kids doing amazingly terrible things? Nope.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I didn't say it was a new thing. NPC groups would suffer in terms of membership if fraternal groups adopted NPC alcohol policies.

My point was that while you want to blame alumni for not getting the message, we know exactly what the issue is. Sigma Nu tried to pass an alcohol free housing initiative in the early 2000s. It was overwhelmingly defeated at our Grand Chapter. It's a non-starter, never going to happen.

We use education by mandating members take the alcohol.edu course every single year (maybe every semester?)

No amount of education, well-meaning rules, or threats is going to stop 18-21 year old people from overconsuming and doing stupid things. It's a force of nature.

What you can control at the end of the day is how well your organization reacts when someone does the stupid thing. That's where alumni can be helpful. It's also where alumni can be very unhelpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keTbsSfMOdI&t=47s [whether that was allowed by alumni or perpetuated, it wins that category forever].

But blaming alums for 18-21 year old kids doing amazingly terrible things? Nope.

Pick your poison.

Either throw your hands up in the air and just say 'Well, there's nothing we can do" and let the alcohol abuse continue, or get sued out of existence and / or get kicked off campus by school admins because your org is not taking control of the problem.

NPHC had a history of hazing problems - people were getting seriously harmed and some died. We were faced with dealing with the problem or literally getting sued out of existence. We made the choice - zero tolerance on hazing. Members and chapters caught hazing are disciplined (suspended, expelled).

I know that in SGR all undergrad sorority functions must have chapter advisers present.

My point is that it all depends on how IFC fraternities want to handle the problem.

If *you, IFC member*, aren't going to take control and deal with this, others will and they won't be so nice about it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Pick your poison.

Either throw your hands up in the air and just say 'Well, there's nothing we can do" and let the alcohol abuse continue, or get sued out of existence and / or get kicked off campus by school admins because your org is not taking control of the problem.

My chapter has never had a hazing problem--and that is an interesting discussion as we were chartered in 2002. We don't have a hazing problem because we haven't ever had members with a tradition of hazing. Looking at our larger, more traditional chapters, one can only speculate now, but when I was an active attending conventions, spending time with guys from other chapters, I'd say some definitely hazed.

NPHC had a history of hazing problems - people were getting seriously harmed and some died. We were faced with dealing with the problem or literally getting sued out of existence. We made the choice - zero tolerance on hazing. Members and chapters caught hazing are disciplined (suspended, expelled).

This is pretty much the same for NIC (and former NIC groups) but YMMV as far as how responsive an HQ is.

I know that in SGR all undergrad sorority functions must have chapter advisers present.

How do you define a sorority function? I can see chapter advisers being present for initiation. But 6 of your members and their significant others and a few randos want to get together,and mayhem ensues, was that a chapter function?

My point is that it all depends on how IFC fraternities want to handle the problem.

If *you, IFC member*, aren't going to take control and deal with this, others will and they won't be so nice about it.

Structurally, we are different than NPC and other conferences. The NIC does not govern. They do not legislate. They mostly represent our combined interests to outsiders by doing things like lobbying. What they cannot do is tell Sigma Nu we have to have fully alcohol free housing. It isn't their place.

IFC is a different group at each school at many schools, NPHC affiliated groups and MCGLOs are members of the IFC. SAE and Lambda Chi are not members of the NIC, but I'm sure most of their chapters still participate in their local IFC.

I, an alumnus, am not a member of any IFC. When I was chapter adviser, I did not answer to or have really any dealings with our IFC.

And I think we largely are taking care of business. I think you have a few schools with strong traditions of hazing and partying that are hard to change because those groups still have the same alums coming back to teach about how things were in the good 'ol days.

I think you'll see these trends are mostly occurring in chapters which have had these trends. Largely, newer chapters whose early alumni take care to isolate themselves from bad traditions are going to have a better trajectory.

Unfortunately, there's too much money in those mainline Division I school chapters to do what needs to be done in a lot of cases and let them sit dormant for 20 years or so.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My chapter has never had a hazing problem--and that is an interesting discussion as we were chartered in 2002. We don't have a hazing problem because we haven't ever had members with a tradition of hazing. Looking at our larger, more traditional chapters, one can only speculate now, but when I was an active attending conventions, spending time with guys from other chapters, I'd say some definitely hazed.



This is pretty much the same for NIC (and former NIC groups) but YMMV as far as how responsive an HQ is.



How do you define a sorority function? I can see chapter advisers being present for initiation. But 6 of your members and their significant others and a few randos want to get together,and mayhem ensues, was that a chapter function?



Structurally, we are different than NPC and other conferences. The NIC does not govern. They do not legislate. They mostly represent our combined interests to outsiders by doing things like lobbying. What they cannot do is tell Sigma Nu we have to have fully alcohol free housing. It isn't their place.

IFC is a different group at each school at many schools, NPHC affiliated groups and MCGLOs are members of the IFC. SAE and Lambda Chi are not members of the NIC, but I'm sure most of their chapters still participate in their local IFC.

I, an alumnus, am not a member of any IFC. When I was chapter adviser, I did not answer to or have really any dealings with our IFC.

And I think we largely are taking care of business. I think you have a few schools with strong traditions of hazing and partying that are hard to change because those groups still have the same alums coming back to teach about how things were in the good 'ol days.

I think you'll see these trends are mostly occurring in chapters which have had these trends. Largely, newer chapters whose early alumni take care to isolate themselves from bad traditions are going to have a better trajectory.

Unfortunately, there's too much money in those mainline Division I school chapters to do what needs to be done in a lot of cases and let them sit dormant for 20 years or so.

I substituted hazing for alcohol abuse as an example of how the governing body of a GLO had to tackle an issue that was threatening the functioning of the entire international organization.

Again, SGR had a similar problem with older alums coming back to their undergrad chapters to teach them about pre-MIP pledging. To deal with the problem our IHQ revoked chapter charters and suspended / expelled members. Ultimately members started getting the message.

Our advisers are expected to be in attendance at any and all sanctioned chapter events - recruiting, initiation, parties, and fundraisers. If our undergrad members are going to have a function in the name of SGR an adviser must be there. Period.

You can give up 20 years and come back as a better chapter or you can give up the 100-150 years of existence.

[Titchou]

Oh I don't blame the kids. And maybe your group structure is the problem. Councils of NPC groups passed the no alcohol. It's not a constitutional issue for us -it's policy and that's Council driven....for the most part.

[navane]

The young man from SDSU has died. Condolences to his family on what surely is a heartbreaking loss.

Article: https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...ity-event-dies

[Kevin]

Alcohol abuse isn't a threat to the entire organization for us. It's something which sometimes becomes tragic, but in many of these cases, those who drink assume the risk of their drinking. It's a free choice. Free choices come with consequences.

And again, I gave the hypo of 6 of your members getting together with their significant others and some randos. Is that an SGR event? What an "event" consists of has been a real problem as some would define an event as a gathering of 2 or more members.

That's a little much to be placing on the shoulders of alumni volunteers.