Wear letters at a bar??

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not judging other sorority members if their organizations allow this to happen. From what I understand, there are many fraternities that don't have any rules concerning this.

I don't know of any fraternity that does have a rule banning drinking in letters. Is there one?

First of all, it's just easier and more to the point to say "Don't drink in letters," rather than fall into the gray area involving people using their "good judgment" to determine whether their behavior is appropriate and upholding the ideals of the organization.

It's easier, but not more to the point, in my opinion. More to the point would be to expect members to use good judgment and uphold the ideals of the organization in any situation, including while drinking, since that is what the actual purpose of the rule is, but it would be a harder standard.

I'm not criticising AST or any other org for adopting a "no drinking in letters" rule. I'm just pointing out that there are different ways to look at this particular issue.

[OhTheAlphaTau]

Even at my school, with only three NPC sororities, the rules vary dramatically. Although Alpha Sigma Tau has a strict "no drinking in letters" policy, our alcohol rules have a lot of gray areas. The other sororities on campus do not follow their rules as seriously as we do. I believe they both have a policy, but it is pretty much overlooked and they have gained their reputations through that. I like our rule because it assures that we retain our reputation! As for wearing letters to a bar, I can't believe that they would do that even without having a rule. If you were at a bar and saw a group of girls with ABC or XYZ sorority letters on, wouldn't you remember the next time you see those girls? The first thought in your head would be "wow, those ABC/XYZ girls were trashed last weekend!"

[SWTXBelle]

I am actually not 100% sure it is an international policy or not, but I've never known a Gamma Phi who would wear letters while drinking. Even if you are behaving yourself, the question is whether or not that is an appropriate place for letters. I'd say better safe than sorry, and from a pr standpoint it would be best not to wear your letters while drinking. It is a double-standard - fraternities seem to have no problem with it.

[OhTheAlphaTau]

We are advised to not wear our letters to frat houses, bars or other places where alcohol is present.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't know of any fraternity that does have a rule banning drinking in letters. Is there one?

It's easier, but not more to the point, in my opinion. More to the point would be to expect members to use good judgment and uphold the ideals of the organization in any situation, including while drinking, since that is what the actual purpose of the rule is, but it would be a harder standard.

I'm not criticising AST or any other org for adopting a "no drinking in letters" rule. I'm just pointing out that there are different ways to look at this particular issue.

I don't know of any fraternity that has a rule concerning this, but I couldn't say that none of them do, because I simply haven't looked up rules stated by every fraternity. So there's definitely a possibility that none of them restrict the wearing of letters while drinking.

And I know you're not criticizing AST, I'm just giving my point of view, as well And yes, in an ideal world, you could simply say to members, "Use good judgment," and everyone's definition of those words would be the same, and no one would drink too much or act inappropriately while wearing letters.

But in reality, that doesn't happen. And just like we sometimes judge potential new members for being crazy and out of control while drunk, I'm sure they do the same thing with us. And I know that not all ASTs are perfect, and I'm sure that there have been a few that have done ridiculous things while drunk (and members from other sororities probably have, also), and I'm glad that my organization restricts those people from wearing letters to the bar so that everyone out that night won't think, "Wow, those are what the ASTs are like." As everyone always says here (generally referring to hazing incidents), actions of a few shouldn't be attributed to the entire organization... but it's human nature, and it happens.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by ilovetheviolets

This is more for Sorority women than Fraternty men...

I have recently heard from two people that there are sororities that are allowed to wear their letters out at bars (one supposedly encourages it, which I find hard to believe). I didn't know if this was true, I searched both alcohol policies, but did not find anything in there directly stating they shouldn't. Please, any info. would help. For now I will leave out the names of the 2 organizations I heard of doing this, if you want to know, please, PM me.

I'd say just do what you want (within reason), fuck what anyone thinks.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I do not have a problem being in a bar or around alcohol. If I make a commitment to one or two then you will be hard pressed to find me doing otherwise. Being in a bar (even with letters) does not make you an alcoholic, an incontrollable drinker, or a bad person.

If I saw a group of women in their letters drinking, the only time I would think twice about it is if they were actually drunk. Just being present there doesn't mean they are going to exhibit poor behavior. Half the time, no one needs the letters on if they are drinking because if they start acting crazy someone will most certainly point it out.

Being around alcohol in letters isn't the problem. Alcohol is not the problem. It's people with piss poor judgment that are the problem.

If your org. says it's okay, then it's okay. If your org. says it's not, then it's obviously not. But I'm not out there worrying about so and so and their org.'s repuatation. It's not that deep.

[als463]

I agree with the fact that drinking excessively in letters is poor judgement. That's why I thought it was odd that the year I graduated from Penn State-University Park, I would say that a handful of chapters actually had "XYZ bar tour" shirts made up. I don't mean one or two girls in a chapter, I mean all of the seniors actually graduating. The point of the "bar tour" is to drink heavily-and (many, not all) Penn Staters are known for doing it well. I actually went on my bar tour with my sisters but, we had other stupid saying shirts made up for that reason alone.

One chapter that was on probation wore shirts that said something along the lines like, "We are on probation-so we are wearing our letters" on the back and the front had letters.

I don't really drink much but, when I do-I try not to wear my letters because I know how bad I can get.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by als463

One chapter that was on probation wore shirts that said something along the lines like, "We are on probation-so we are wearing our letters" on the back and the front had letters.

Wow. That's just sad.

[AOII Angel]

I think we would have laughed at anyone wearing letters in a bar. Even in my little hick college town, you dress up to go out! We did, however, have an "exemption" to wear our letters to bid night party (before they did away with that!) and Pikefest every year. All 4 NPC groups on campus would wear bid shirts (with full sewn on letters) to bid night parties and Pikefest where drinking was rampant and excessive. I guess since all groups participated we got away with it.

***But...for the record, AOII does not allow drinking in letters!

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by OhTheAlphaTau

We are advised to not wear our letters to frat houses, bars or other places where alcohol is present.

Ditto.

And besides, I think we would have dressed up a little bit to go out, even just to some bar, than wear a lettered t-shirt. If we wore a t-shirt out to a bar, it was for a basketball game or something.

[OneHeartOneWay]

I won't claim to know our national policy 100%, but I actually don't think it addresses drinking alcohol in our letters. However, every chapter I advise does address the issue to some degree in their chapter's Code of Conduct, which does allow for more variation due to campus climate. I know at least one chapter with which I work has rules in thier COC about smoking cigarettes in thier letters, too.

It's a debate between some other advisors with which I work, but from an alumna perspective, I fall on the side of modeling responsible behavior. If I'm wearing my letters and we all decide to go get dinner or something, I don't see a problem with having a glass of wine with my meal. It's like the others said- I believe there is a big difference between simply drinking in my letters, and getting drunk in my letters.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by OneHeartOneWay

I know at least one chapter with which I work has rules in thier COC about smoking cigarettes in thier letters, too.

Ours did. We had to hold it between two fingers (not let it hang from our mouths) and cross our legs.

I wish I were kidding. Our chapter's code of standards was SUPER old. We used to joke about that rule all the time.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The problem with it, it seems to me, is that it automatically equates drinking with getting drunk and making a fool of one's self. Yeah, I know we're talking about college students, but to me, saying "don't drink in letters" for the reasons you have given is pretty much the same as saying "don't wear letters when you drink because we don't think you, our sisters, are capable of drinking responsibly." To me, it seems much more to the point to say "Remember that when you wear letters that you represent ABG to the world; be careful not to do anything while wearing letters that would reflect badly on ABG."

As the Greeks might say, moderation in all things; nothing in excess. (But yeah, we are talking about college students. )

Follow whatever rules your org has seen fit to adopt, but don't look at other orgs askew if they have decided on different rules.

I agree. We're not allowed to drink in letters. We can't even have a business with "bar" or "pub" in the name sponsor our events.

However, when I was told this rule (especially because alcohol is allowed at some events, albeit under very strict guidlines), I thought the same thing.

I asked for the reason behind it and it was because while everyone may know you're an ABC, it's best not to broadcast it while doing activities that have the potential to reflect badly upon an organization and a life style we work hard to uphold.

I'm not sure if I 100% agree with it, because I do feel (in letter or not) that I always represent Alpha Ep. But, I follow the rule.

In addition, our chapter has a cute little saying called The 5 Ss, which are the only times our NMs are allowed to not wear their pledge pin: sleeping, showering, sports, s***-faced, and, well, something else that requires a lot of sweating.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by OneHeartOneWay

I won't claim to know our national policy 100%, but I actually don't think it addresses drinking alcohol in our letters. However, every chapter I advise does address the issue to some degree in their chapter's Code of Conduct, which does allow for more variation due to campus climate. I know at least one chapter with which I work has rules in thier COC about smoking cigarettes in thier letters, too.

It's a debate between some other advisors with which I work, but from an alumna perspective, I fall on the side of modeling responsible behavior. If I'm wearing my letters and we all decide to go get dinner or something, I don't see a problem with having a glass of wine with my meal. It's like the others said- I believe there is a big difference between simply drinking in my letters, and getting drunk in my letters.

For me, I think the difference would be the context of the situation. If I got a glass of wine with a meal, that's one thing. Going to a bar to get a beer with a friend regardless of whether I become intoxicated or not, not ok in letters IMO.