Alabama Rush and First Cuts: Predetermined?

[misscherrypie]

If someone from another country (I remember reading somewhere on GC about someone from Australia or New Zealand receiving a bid somewhere....don't remember which school it was) could receive a bid, I have plenty of faith in OOS girls in general receiving bids as well.

[bamamama14]

My daughter is an oos student at Alabama. She is taking advantage of the National Merit scholarship that includes everything except meals. That includes a laptop, summer study money, and book money. She looked at Indiana, UK, Belmont, Vanderbilt and a few others. After she visited Alabama, she was sold. The people were so nice, the scholarship was the best of all the places she considered, and the campus is just gorgeous.
Some people wonder why she chose Alabama, but there are many Ole Miss alums in our community that get the appeal of a southern school. Her rush experience was near perfect, so yes, oos students are making an impact on the Greek system and can have a successful recruitment. Dr. Witt has said that the next increase in the student body would come with graduate students, and he hoped to cap undergrad enrollment at 30,000.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by bamamama14

Dr. Witt has said that the next increase in the student body would come with graduate students, and he hoped to cap undergrad enrollment at 30,000.

I think that "cap" has been increased to 35K.

[magnoliacurious]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I think that "cap" has been increased to 35K.

I'm pretty sure you are correct, ma'am.

[UGAalum94]

I may be wrong, but I think most chapters at UGA do accept affiliates. Certainly, there may be some that don't, but I don't think it's the majority.

As far as the HOPE scholarship in Georgia, I'd say the majority of kids in my area who get turned away from UGA or (think they would get turned away and don't even apply) stay in state and go to a less selective school in state.

But there are some who, as someone already noted, want the SEC experience who head to Auburn, Alabama, and Ole Miss (and other schools but those seems to be the ones the kids talk about the most). Some get good scholarships but others are from families who have the resources to pay and don't mind doing it.

I'd be interested in knowing how many of the OOS students are Greek. I wouldn't be at all surprised if going Greek is considered to be an even bigger part of the experience that they are looking for than the in-state kids consider it to be.

[magnoliacurious]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I wouldn't be at all surprised if going Greek is considered to be an even bigger part of the experience that they are looking for than the in-state kids consider it to be.

Well, I would say in lots of ways and cases yes, in other ways and cases no. I mean, as many of us know, lots of established families in southern states like their kids to carry on the tradition of joining XYZ GLO at the state university to keep the bloodline going, so to speak. Of course I'd say it's also true that with many of those kids and their families, it's so taken for granted that by the time the kids get to college, they don't much think about it, they just do it. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Also and on the other hand, OOS students are much less likely to know anybody coming to school and often look at going greek, as a matter of fact, as the easiest, quickest way to make friends and have a support group.

[SoCalGirl]

I'm rusty on my Bama history. Why was there one more chapter doing formal in 2006 than in 2005 or 2007?

For 2011: 78 released, 132 withdrew, and 141 did not receive bids.

Would the 141 have attended pref and signed their bid cards but didn't maximize their options? Those women didn't want to risk a bid to the "wrong" chapter even if it meant having a shot at being a quota addition.

eta: I think there's a thread where we discuss "cross cutting" and effectively prove that it does not exist. Cross cutting is the myth that somehow if the PNM had ranked the chapters differently she would have received a bid. In reality, she was not high enough on any of the chapters bid lists to match before they filled quota.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I'm rusty on my Bama history. Why was there one more chapter doing formal in 2006 than in 2005 or 2007?

For 2011: 78 released, 132 withdrew, and 141 did not receive bids.

Would the 141 have attended pref and signed their bid cards but didn't maximize their options? Those women didn't want to risk a bid to the "wrong" chapter even if it meant having a shot at being a quota addition.

eta: I think there's a thread where we discuss "cross cutting" and effectively prove that it does not exist. Cross cutting is the myth that somehow if the PNM had ranked the chapters differently she would have received a bid. In reality, she was not high enough on any of the chapters bid lists to match before they filled quota.

The 141 probably decided they wanted their top choice or they would drop out and go through DG colonization.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I'm rusty on my Bama history. Why was there one more chapter doing formal in 2006 than in 2005 or 2007?

Just speculating, but it may be that SDT was counted in the 2006 total -- for whatever reason, SDT's new members were listed in the press release that immediately followed formal recruitment, though as far as I know, SDT has not participated in formal recruitment in some time.

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

For 2011: 78 released, 132 withdrew, and 141 did not receive bids.

Would the 141 have attended pref and signed their bid cards but didn't maximize their options? Those women didn't want to risk a bid to the "wrong" chapter even if it meant having a shot at being a quota addition.

That's certainly possible -- it seems as if the numbers of "did not receive bids" increase dramatically on the years when a colonizing sorority held recruitment immediately following formal recruitment.

It may be that more than the usual number of PNMs did not maximize their options at pref knowing that (and being interested in) an option available following formal recruitment.

The numbers seem to be updated for % of women pledged (who participated in formal recruitment), for the years a new sorority came on, but not retrospectively for the number "not receiving bids" in the same year (presumably this number would drop).

[DubaiSis]

I think the take away here is 78 girls were released completely out of 1710, which is 4 1/2%. This needs to be kept in mind when people talk about Bama being super competitive. If you want to be in a house you are ALMOST guaranteed a spot. 4 1/2% isn't zero, but when we have to assume at least a few girls who didn't want to be there and behaved appallingly or showed up with bad breath and gym clothes - or in otherwords intentionally torpedoed their own rush - then you end up with an extremely small number of girls who have all the desire in the world and it just doesn't work out.

This is where I think there could be discussion of going back over those 10 girls after philanthropy round and see if 1 or 2 chapters can't give them a second chance. Quota additions, if you will. Not mandatory, but requested. If each chapter took 2 girls who were released completely (maybe in order of where they fell on the flex lists), maybe that 10 would be cut down to 1 or 2 girls who were just snotty and deserve to be denied. I really think this is something that could be done by the computer with no muss/no fuss to the chapters. There would just have to be a line on the list of "we absolutely do not want back any girl below this point on our list" and they wouldn't be stuck taking a girl who they really think could harm the chapter.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think the take away here is 78 girls were released completely out of 1710, which is 4 1/2%. This needs to be kept in mind when people talk about Bama being super competitive. If you want to be in a house you are ALMOST guaranteed a spot.

I was a little surprised by that number myself -- it does seem lower than I would have expected (especially considering the super competitive manner in which rush is often depicted at Bama).

I also thought the withdrawal numbers, compared to the release numbers, were interesting. I wonder if withdrawal numbers are higher among in-state PNMs. Just speculating -- but OOS girls may be more open-minded than the in-state girls who are disappointed over being released from certain chapters. Pre-conceived ideas are difficult to dispel -- especially in large high schools -- when the PNMs know where older girls pledged.


Large high schools in Birmingham alone, for instance, may each have 60+ girls participating in recruitment. PNMs may not understand that no one chapter is likely to pledge 15 girls just from their own high school (possible I suppose, but not likely). Being from a large high school in a nearby metropolitan area can actually be a competitive disadvantage in some respects, especially if a PNM has her heart set on certain chapters.

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

4 1/2% isn't zero, but when we have to assume at least a few girls who didn't want to be there and behaved appallingly or showed up with bad breath and gym clothes - or in otherwords intentionally torpedoed their own rush - then you end up with an extremely small number of girls who have all the desire in the world and it just doesn't work out.

And there also may be upperclassmen in that number -- who were at a disadvantage out-of-the-gate due to their graduation date.

No doubt that many PNMs who are released are great girls who deserve a Greek home -- which sort of blends into the conversation on the UGA quota thread regarding the threshold for expansion. I would also like to see sufficient expansion to reduce the size of the pledge classes -- probably questions for more knowledgeable and statistically-savvy minds than mine!

[Titchou]

There are always going to be those women who are released because they don't meet the gpa recruitment, have a no rec, etc. But they always think they'll somehow get thru...she's so special that they'll overlook the 2.5 gpa or no one really knew about the drug arrest, or they'll understand that there really weren't any activities to volunteer for in her little town.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

The one thing I'd say in the PNMs' defense is that those chapters have worked very, very hard to appeal to the PNM and appear deeply interested in her. That's what effective recruiting is all about, whether we're talking about employers, universities, etc.

This is also true.

The strongest recruiting chapters are VERY good at this and will generally have women SIPing them for that very reason.

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

The one thing I'd say in the PNMs' defense is that those chapters have worked very, very hard to appeal to the PNM and appear deeply interested in her. That's what effective recruiting is all about, whether we're talking about employers, universities, etc.

True. But I think that we all know that even if the weak chapter had a huge breakthrough and was able to use the same techniques, PNMs would view them as desperate since they've been guzzling the tent talk koolaid.

[carnation]

I have witnessed this. I recall one rush where "the chapter everyone wanted" kept goofing up and goofing around in their skit. It was awful and the adults kept cutting their eyes around at each other as if to say, "I do NOT believe how bad this is." Yet the rushees were laughing merrily and desperately, anything to please the sorority girls. And then I realized that that chapter could have gone up there and had nothing but competitive burping and the rushees would have desperately wanted them.

Whereas the weaker chapters could've been brilliant and witty and sparkled in their conversations, etc., and they still would've been dropped.