Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[crescent&pearls]

[QUOTE=DGTess;1838494]

If a sorority (yes, I'm talking big Sorority, not chapter) agrees to total/quota (whatever it is) rules that prohibit bringing back for a second or further round a woman they want to get to know, they're kowtowing to the arbitrary.

Duh. I never said it was because they are legacies. I find it utterly atrocious that you would not invite back the women you might want.

That's the reality of recruitment. We can only invite back the women we MOST want. Just as PNMs must rank chapters they want MOST. If we're going to have a formal Panhellenic recruitment we have to have a system of limiting the number of invitations so that all chapters participating have a realtively equal opportunity to pledge quota and reach total. We do this in a spirit of mutual cooperation, support and respect. There would be no point in having a formal panhellenic recruitment, quota or total if there were not limits on the numbers each chapter could invite back to each round.

It's great when legacies are pledged and initiated and it all works out happy for everyone....but I think NPC members who don't support their legacies in making their own choices and being happy for them however it turns out do their own legacy a huge disservice. Let her be her own woman and enjoy her own experience!

[DGTess]

And now we're back to an earlier point... it's Panhellenic recruitment which, I submit, causes superficial rush, and which causes us to eliminate women too soon.

Apparently we disagree. I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is. Adults can disagree.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

And now we're back to an earlier point... it's Panhellenic recruitment which, I submit, causes superficial rush, and which causes us to eliminate women too soon.

Apparently we disagree. I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is. Adults can disagree.

So your proposed hypothetical solution to legacy issues is to eliminate formal recruitment?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

So your proposed hypothetical solution to legacy issues is to eliminate formal recruitment?

I just wonder how many women at CMU when DGTess was there DIDN'T "connect" with the sorority member writing them letters all summer, didn't bother to look at other groups and missed out on Greek life because Panhel wasn't running rush at least semi-properly.

This is what's happening at my school with the lack of a true formal rush - women are only focusing on one group and if they don't get a bid to that group, becoming anti-Greek - which is why these posts really piss me off. There's a big difference between "I didn't think of being Greek until I found XYZ" and "XYZ didn't give me a bid, so I won't think of being Greek." You can argue a chicken/egg scenario (i.e. Greek life was declining anyway, it has nothing to do with the rush method) but when you look at numbers with a formal rush in place and without it, I'd think you'd want to at least try.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is. Adults can disagree.

In your opinion, what might be better? Not being an ass - I'm genuinely curious as to what alternatives might be worthy of consideration.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I despise the Panhellenic system; you seem to believe it's the best thing there is.

There's a difference between believing something is "the best thing there is" and believing that it is a workable, albeit flawed, system. I too would like to know what might be better - if you look at how much recruitment has changed over time, I'd say it has been improving. I love the new return system, for example.

It reminds me of grading - I hate the A, B, C, etc., system of grading, but in the absence of anything better, it's all I (as a teacher) have got.

[DoctorD]

As I was a legacy to another sorority, my mother swears to this day that I acted up at her sorority's chapter to cause me to be dropped by them after round 2. I have told her repeatedly that wasn't the case - it was clearly not a fit.

With the discussion about the idea of "super legacy," if such an animal existed, my daughters would be considered such when/if they go through recruitment in a few years. And while I already can imagine how I will feel/be during that point (a complete wreck during recruitment week!), the journey that they will make must be their own. If they aren't a fit for my organization, that's ok - and that fit can be from either side - theirs, or the chapter's. While I would love to not only call them my daughters but also my sisters, I want them to be happy and to know that they are supported regardless. I do want them to be considered more than the PNM who has no connection with the organization (which is what legacy status offers), and knowing that the chapter will look at them for at least two rounds gives me some comfort.

I think back to how things "used to be," prior to RFM, plus with the changes that my own organization has made to member selection, and I do think the system works way better than it used to. Perfect? no. Perhaps I'm too educated in the system, but at the same time I think "super legacy" status also means that the mother has a clue and recognizes the possibilities better than someone who has not been very involved in 20 years. Would I be hurt if my daughters were released? no. Disappointed? certainly. It would not cause me to stop being involved in my organization, but would certainly cause me to also be involved in theirs, helping at recruitment or whatever they wanted/needed me to do.

In the meantime, though, my daughters know about Greek Life, and have from a young age. They've watched me do sorority work and have conference calls with sisters, and asked why didn't I just meet with them (explaining that these women are all over the country was a fun conversation, btw). They've helped me shop for Convention. They've been to get togethers I've had with sorority sisters. The Purpose is on our refrigerator. They play with Alpha Gam word magnets I got from IHQ. They've looked through our brand new new member book, and my oldest daughter recently decided she needed to learn the Greek alphabet on her own. They have also looked at materials from other organizations that I have reviewed at some point as I try to ascertain trends within the Greek community (one of the reasons I'm on Greek Chat, btw). They have been exposed to other Greek organizations both at the college where I work and at the camp they go to, as a number of the senior counselors are Greek - and I think they are more aware of the fact that some of the counselors are in sororities and tell me about them because they know how involved I am in my own organization. They've watched me write recommendations for young women, and cheer loudly when I find out where they pledge [thus far it has never been for Alpha Gam]. At every turn, I focus on Panhellenic spirit, because in the long run, that's what is important. I know that we're all in the same boat, and offer a lot of the same things.

So, I guess I write all this to say I'm comfortable with the fact that we still talk about legacies and that they exist. Super legacy just doesn't feel as important.

The 2 cents of a "medium/big squirrel."

[Zeta_heart]

This subject has really touched my heart this recruitment. My real life little sister was going though recruitment. Having been a panhellenic recruitment chair, I advised her just as I would any other PNM. To keep her options open, to find her perfect fit, that just because I belonged to one GLO didn't mean she had to as well. However, as she went through recruitment she fell in love with the same organization I did. I couldn't blame her, they capture me too. I still encouraged her to keep looking at other places, but her heart was set.

I had helped her secure several recs from well established alums, some who serve as nationals officers. My sister knew how much I care about this organization, and as a current chapter president, she has seen my hardwork and the passion I put into it. To say my heart was broken when she was dropped before preference was an understatement. For something I love and work so hard for, to cut the person who means the most to me in the world is devestaing.

It is easy to say that, you have to look for the right fit, and that every chapter is different. But to watch my little sister cry her eyes out was the most heartbreaking thing in the world. I think we really need to take a look at the legacy women we are turning away. We are losing way too many women that could contribute to our organizations. I know my sister for one would have, without a doubt, been a loyal and comitted member, who continued to give back after graduation.

Being a Legacy is such an important thing, were all our organizations not found on the idea of sisterhood, of tradition, of empowering women? I hope in the future things will change, and young women on various campuses will see the value of legacy members, too many are turned away because of some unwritten bias.

Sorry for being so long, but this has topic has really recently touched my heart.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by Zeta_heart

This subject has really touched my heart this recruitment. My real life little sister was going though recruitment. Having been a panhellenic recruitment chair, I advised her just as I would any other PNM. To keep her options open, to find her perfect fit, that just because I belonged to one GLO didn't mean she had to as well. However, as she went through recruitment she fell in love with the same organization I did. I couldn't blame her, they capture me too. I still encouraged her to keep looking at other places, but her heart was set.

I had helped her secure several recs from well established alums, some who serve as nationals officers. My sister knew how much I care about this organization, and as a current chapter president, she has seen my hardwork and the passion I put into it. To say my heart was broken when she was dropped before preference was an understatement. For something I love and work so hard for, to cut the person who means the most to me in the world is devestaing.

It is easy to say that, you have to look for the right fit, and that every chapter is different. But to watch my little sister cry her eyes out was the most heartbreaking thing in the world. I think we really need to take a look at the legacy women we are turning away. We are losing way too many women that could contribute to our organizations. I know my sister for one would have, without a doubt, been a loyal and comitted member, who continued to give back after graduation.

Being a Legacy is such an important thing, were all our organizations not found on the idea of sisterhood, of tradition, of empowering women? I hope in the future things will change, and young women on various campuses will see the value of legacy members, too many are turned away because of some unwritten bias.

Sorry for being so long, but this has topic has really recently touched my heart.

I really don't think that's it at all. At a lot of campus it's simply a number thing. If quota is 50 and there are 75 legacies to XYZ they can't take all of them. And even then what about new members, who are not legacies.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by Zeta_heart

We are losing way too many women that could contribute to our organizations. I know my sister for one would have, without a doubt, been a loyal and comitted member, who continued to give back after graduation.

I'm sorry to hear of your experience, but by giving legacies a major advantage over non-legacies we're doing the exact same thing, just to a different subset of people. There are many non-legacies that join a group and give back throughout their whole lives! I mean, a legacy has to get its start somewhere, right? I understand you're upset, but this doesn't make sense. A legacy has just a much of a chance of being a useless sister who doesn't contribute anything as any random person with no connections to the group. Or vice versa.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Honestly though, the issue is to be expected. Sororities have been around for a long time. That alone would guarantee a lot of legacies. Add in the fact that grandchildren and nieces also counts and the number shoots through the roof.

[Zillini]

One the one hand there are alumna who have dedicated years to their sorority in various ways (advising Chapters, House Corp members, I/natl officers, etc.) Without them the organizations would struggle and fail. To do that you know they have made family sacrifices over the years. Sweetie, Dad is taking you to dance class tonight because Mom has to go to Recruitment and won't be home until about 3am. I'm sorry honey, Mom has to miss your soccer game this weekend because of an out of town sorority conference. What a slap in the face to that dedicated alumna Mom when a Chapter releases her daughter!

Yet on the other hand working with the collegians I know how frustrating it can be to get a lot of pressure about legacies who really would not be a good fit. Membership decisions are supposed to be based on what is best for the Chapter, not for a single alumna.

And the simple fact remains that on some campuses there are simply more legacies than Quota allows. Cuts have to be made. It's a no win situation. When you cut legacies you face the wrath of angry alumnae and possibly even your I/natl org. On the flip side imagine the accusations of elitism and discrimination if a sorority were to pledge Quota with only legacies.

[brokengymnast75]

Originally Posted by Zillini

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] To do that you know they have made family sacrifices over the years. Sweetie, Dad is taking you to dance class tonight because Mom has to go to Recruitment and won't be home until about 3am. I'm sorry honey, Mom has to miss your soccer game this weekend because of an out of town sorority conference. What a slap in the face to that dedicated alumna Mom when a Chapter releases her daughter!

I have personally been on the daughter's side. My mom missed my birthday party 4 years in a row, couldn't go to my 5th grade and 8th grade graduation because she was at convention. She would leave for a week, and I had to eat the fast food my dad brought home that made me sick. When we only had one computer, I could rarely play games on it because my mom had to answer emails all the time and write up reports. On road trips, she would be on a conference call the entire time, so I had to sit there quietly with out music or talking. At fancy alumnae parties at our house, I had to take coats and serve food.

I had watched both my cousin and sister become initiated into both my mom's and aunt's sorority.

Long story short, when I rushed last year, I was dropped from my mother's sorority the night before pref. And I did not find a home at any of the sororities at my school.

It hurt. I had just wanted to be apart of a sisterhood like I had seen all the women in my family be apart of.

But it was a tricky situation. If the chapter wasn't for me, then I guess it wasn't for me. Should the chapter be forced to take me because I was a "super legacy"? Absolutely not. I don't know how to word this properly, but I still feel almost like my mom and I deserve something from having my mom's sorority affect my childhood so much through all the service she did. It's just a difficult balance between honoring alumnae's service but still allowing the chapter to choose who they want.

[33girl]

I look at it this way. If I ever have a daughter, I want her to find the kind of sisterhood I found in my chapter of ASA. If that's in ASA - fine. If it's in KKG - fine. If it's in the women's rugby team - fine. If it's in a group of women she meets in her dorm - fine.

I wouldn't want any chapter of my sorority to feel forced to take her just because I was a member - mainly because I know that there are chapters of my sorority that wouldn't have taken me, either.

Maybe this means I'm not devoted enough to my sorority on a national level, but if it does, so be it. Maybe it means I still look at this from a collegian's point of view instead of an alum's, but if it does, so be it.

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I look at it this way. If I ever have a daughter, I want her to find the kind of sisterhood I found in my chapter of ASA. If that's in ASA - fine. If it's in KKG - fine. If it's in the women's rugby team - fine. If it's in a group of women she meets in her dorm - fine.

I wouldn't want any chapter of my sorority to feel forced to take her just because I was a member - mainly because I know that there are chapters of my sorority that wouldn't have taken me, either.

Maybe this means I'm not devoted enough to my sorority on a national level, but if it does, so be it. Maybe it means I still look at this from a collegian's point of view instead of an alum's, but if it does, so be it.

It's so hard because I totally see this too. I advise a great chapter, but I doubt I would've joined this chapter or if they would've wanted me. While our sorority has certain "core values" that we adhere to, let's face it, it comes down to the members at the time at each chapter. These are girls that are 18-22 years old, and we can all remember how we were at that age. It's a hard age for everyone, and I wish I had judged everyone on, say, their grades and ability to pay, but we all know we didn't. If I had a daughter, I would want her to find a great sisterhood somewhere too, but if wasn't a fit with my sorority for whatever reason, then it's unfortunate, but it's not a fit. These things happen. I honestly would be more mad if she didn't get in to my alma mater than if she didn't get into my sorority.