Number of recommendations?

[UGAalum94]

I am Greek Chat search function disabled, so I apologize in advance for asking a question that I'm pretty sure we've talked about but I still don't feel like I really know the answer to.

Avoiding ritual membership selection information of course, can anyone with actual direct experience say for sure if some groups or chapters really want multiple recs and letters of support?

Are there campuses at which having only one strong recommendation filled out by a person who knows the PNM personally is actually a weakness?

If so, will you state the chapters or campuses so we could have a list?

Here's the thing, I think some PNMs and PNMs moms are erring on the side of way too much and too many, and I really wonder if anyone really wants this stuff. I have visions of membership chairs and advisors snowed under a blizzard of letters that basically duplicate information and for which they have no quantifiable use. The recruitments that we think of as being super competitive are also frequently some of the largest. Do they really need three letters on 1000+ girls?

[gee_ess]

In my experience, (University of Arkansas) it is not wrong to have several letters and/or recs. There are girls who are pledged each year with the requisite one recommendation, BUT I think it speaks well of the pnm if more than one alum feels good enough about her to write a letter of support.

No one that I know ever says, "We have way too many letters on this pnm. Let's throw some of it away. " It is more likely that you would hear, "We have tons of letters on this girl. We need to get to know her."

I think a good average at the U of A would be three letters and/ or recs. BUT AGAIN, one would not be a liability AT ALL.

[KSUViolet06]

I didn't go to UGA, LSU, or any of those SEC schools so I may be way off with this but:

Could it be possible that some Panhellenics ask for 2 or 3 recs because there are so many girls going through that they need a way to make those initial cuts (particularly at schools where not many of the PNMs are likely to be cut for grades due to the school's admission standards)?

[breathesgelatin]

At W&L most women did not have recs. However, women from certain areas and certain schools would come in with many. For example, we once got 22 letters of support for one women. Some of these letters were lengthy and some were 4-5 sentences. But yeah. 22. We thought it was a little bit of overkill but didn't hold it against her or anything. The way we would receive them is one of the actual RIF forms (Pi Phi language for rec) and then all the letters of support together with it in a packet.

Based on the fact that this was a pattern that occurred year after year, I would presume that this is common at some schools and not a detriment, since they were assembling packets of these kind for women. Also based on the fact that many of these women ended up joining "top" groups at W&L. I would assume that Alumnae Panhellenics who were putting these packets together would very much know the culture of the school.

The only time I ever heard of something working to a woman's detriment was when a alumna supporter sent a cake decorated with a photorealistic image of the PNM to the chapter with the message on it "Please don't forget about sweet Suzy PNM." I kid you not. I know this to be true, but I think I've got to withhold the chapter/school/etc.

[FSUZeta]

22 it too much-what on earth can someone say in 4 or 5 lines that the alumna who wrote a page did not say? that being said, i imagine those brief letters were included more to honor the alumnae who wrote them, rather than to enhance the pnms prospects.

for most competitve recruitments, i think that one official sorority form (mis for zta, rif for pi phi, various names for others) and letter,accompanied by several (2 or 3) personal letters from other alumnae(and a legacy form, if the pnm is a legacy and that particular sorority has a leg. form) should be sufficient.

most of our forms ask fairly general information and provide small spaces on which to share that info. a well written letter can allow the chapter to really get a good idea of how that pnm could contribute to the chapter and how she would fit in.

[gee_ess]

Yes, 22 is a lot, but it is not necessarily about telling the actives something new each time. It is also representative of a show of support from alums for a particular pnm. And in highly Greek cities, there can be quite a competition between glo alums for top rushees. (referencing the South, here)

I think the point of the OP was to find out what is happening at specific chapters to help pnm's looking for advice, so I am not sure we are going to be helping her if we debate the merits of 5 letters vs. 15.

[Zillini]

I'm far more interested in the quality of Recs, not the quantity. How well does the alum know the PNM? Did she provide additional info/insight on the PNM's personality/character or just repeat what's already on her resume?

There is no such thing as too many Recs IMO, though 22 is overkill. I bet this PNM was known as "Rec Girl". I think more than 2 or 3 "Info Only" Recs from alums who don't know the PNM at all is pointless. All that tells me is the PNM found a bunch of random alums.

[AnchorAlumna]

I have heard some tales about Texas alums overdoing recs, with pizzas, flowers and cakes delivered to boost their gal...and certainly women who've come through with multiple recs, even more than 22.
And I've heard that a handful of our very top chapters consider any more than 3 or 4 to be wasted...
It doesn't hurt to have more than one, but I wouldn't tell a PNM they had to have more than 1. It's hard enough to get 1. And 1 is all they need.

[UGAalum94]

I wasn't thinking about anyone holding it against the PNMs with multiple recs or letters; I was just thinking that it probably ultimately isn't helpful for the chapters to actually receive this many and that it was actually something that could get so out of hand that it actually hindered chapters.

Not that getting multiple letters of support in one packet is a big deal, but when, say, girls who know that they need recs at UGA, hear that multiple letters and recs are better, recruitment chairs might start getting five packets per girl and they don't really NEED five per girl if the the content of each is really similar or if the first RIF or Rec writer did a good job.

It's kind of like recommendation letters for some highly selective colleges. They pretty much make clear in many cases that they don't want more than the ones they request; I think because beyond that it's a paperwork and filing nightmare AND there's not any real use for them.

But I've never been a recruitment or membership chair or adviser, so I really have no idea AND this is one of those areas for which I honestly have no recollection of what we did with them during recruitment back when I was rushing.

When PNMs ask me, I have no idea how to advise. There's a certain amount of work involved in producing recs, so saying oh, yeah get as many as you can really does carry a burden so somebody.

[33girl]

Does everyone in the chapter know how many recs a girl gets and who they're from, or do they just know she has a rec and so that issue is taken care of?

If this is too nebby, don't answer

[FSUZeta]

the chapter usually knows if a pnm has a rec. and someone with 22 would be famous!

i'm afraid that we are not going to be able to say "at uga, for abc sorority a pnm will need 3 recs. because if they are just 3 rec. forms, all with identical information, then there might as well have been one.

one terrific rec./letter should be sufficient, providing the pnm meets the criteria the chapter is looking for in a new member. one or two more should not harm the pnm. at chapters i have advised,the chapter recruitment v.p. usually keeps multiple recs. clipped together, and they are kept thruout recruitment in a filefolder in alpha order.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I have heard some tales about Texas alums overdoing recs, with pizzas, flowers and cakes delivered to boost their gal...and certainly women who've come through with multiple recs, even more than 22.

I don't guess it's revealing too much to say that 22-rec girl was from Texas. As were most of the other people we got huge packets on. We got packets on girls from a lot of other locales, but the Texas ones were usually biggest.

Don't know if it's just a Texas tradition or if Texas chapters just need and expect more.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

the chapter usually knows if a pnm has a rec. and someone with 22 would be famous!

i'm afraid that we are not going to be able to say "at uga, for abc sorority a pnm will need 3 recs. because if they are just 3 rec. forms, all with identical information, then there might as well have been one.

one terrific rec./letter should be sufficient, providing the pnm meets the criteria the chapter is looking for in a new member. one or two more should not harm the pnm. at chapters i have advised,the chapter recruitment v.p. usually keeps multiple recs. clipped together, and they are kept thruout recruitment in a filefolder in alpha order.

I don't think I ever knew as a chapter member who had recs, but I may have been especially clueless. I'm often amazed at what I either never knew or don't remember.

FSUZeta, is your standard answer when a girl asks how many recs she needs that "you need at least one really excellent one from someone who knows you well and one or two more wouldn't hurt"? It sounds pretty good to me.

And as long as not too many PNM exceed that by a wide margin, it shouldn't ever a problem. I just see some potential problems emerging if the moms start taking things to extremes.

[FSUZeta]

i guess it is, if i am not familiar with the desires of that particular chapter.

while recs. are important at many campuses, it really has so much more to do than just a great rec. like i said earlier, if the pnm is not what the chapter is looking for in a new member, a dozen recs. are not going to earn her a bid. on the other hand, many a great girl have been dropped because they did not have a rec. there is no perfect formula-the best a pnm can do is to do her homework, find out if recs. are expected at her school and find alumnae that can write recs. for her.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

i guess it is, if i am not familiar with the desires of that particular chapter.

while recs. are important at many campuses, it really has so much more to do than just a great rec. like i said earlier, if the pnm is not what the chapter is looking for in a new member, a dozen recs. are not going to earn her a bid. on the other hand, many a great girl have been dropped because they did not have a rec. there is no perfect formula-the best a pnm can do is to do her homework, find out if recs. are expected at her school and find alumnae that can write recs. for her.

I agree. And I guess that's one thing about advising girls to get more that concerns me. PNMS and their moms and alumnae may end up putting a great deal of effort into producing multiple letters of recommendation that ultimately won't do that much to affect the PNMs chances.

If she is well-qualified, has a good rec, and is a good fit for the chapter in the eyes of the current active members, she will do well. If she isn't otherwise well-qualified or isn't a good fit for the chapter in the eyes of the current members, a bunch of recs won't do any good.

And then of course there's just how my mind boggles at paper management of a multiple recs on each girl at a really big recruitment. 1000+ just seems like enough without having to handle 3000.

You are lucky to have an inside understanding of what particular chapters are looking for. Most of us, I'm afraid, don't have any idea of what goes on at any but our own undergraduate chapters.