When the novelty wears off...

EvanWilliams · #1 01-22-2008, 11:52 PM

I've been a member of my fraternity for two years now. I enjoyed pledging (surprisingly) and had a good time my second semester. But now the novelty is wearing off, and all the stupid stuff during chapter is really wearing on me.

I'm down south, where tiers rule the greek systems. We have always been a very strong house, but this semester, we've broken into the top of the top and pushed out another chapter.
Since the last couple semesters- we've been teetering on the edge and struggling to break down the tradition- it seems that many of my brothers have the same thought processes as sorority girls. During rush, about our social schedule, about brothers' girlfriends. It's disgusting and embarassing. Seriously, we were turning away rushees based on looks and clothing. Some of my favorites were shunned for visiting lower tiered chapters. Everyone seems to think that we're such badasses, and even though we are (sorry), I don't appreciate that attitude. Out of control is the only phrase that comes to mind.

I usually don't enjoy any sort of emotional discussion, but this is really serious to me. Has anyone ever experienced something similar? Sometimes I just feel like my goals are different from the vast majority of my chapter now. Any thoughts?

Also, I know how crazy some of you GreekChatters are, so I'll just fess up and say, 'yes', this is a sockpuppet name, and 'no', I will not tell any of you who I am.

TSteven · #2 01-23-2008, 02:11 AM

Sock-puppet or no, I'll answer your question just the same.

If the issue was that some rushees "were shunned for visiting lower tiered chapter", and you feel they are worthy of a bid, then it is YOUR responsibility to make the chapter aware of their worth.

EvanWilliams · #3 01-23-2008, 02:14 AM

I mentioned that I thought my goals and outlooks were becoming more different from the chapters (mine haven't changed).
In a group of 130+, it's very difficult to change opinions. Sure I could win over a decent number, but for the most part, people respect the majority.

TSteven · #4 01-23-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvanWilliams

I mentioned that I thought my goals and outlooks were becoming more different from the chapters (mine haven't changed).

In a group of 130+, it's very difficult to change opinions. Sure I could win over a decent number, but for the most part, people respect the majority.

Then with all due respect, your brother's "views" will - and should be - "best" for the chapter (as a whole).

Having said this doesn't mean you should not try to impress on your brothers your view point. In many situations, they (brothers/sisters) simply do not know there is a difference in opinion.

rufio · #5 01-23-2008, 03:54 AM

try looking back on your fraternity's values and see if the the current attitude and actions are promoting them. you should make it known if the principles are not being upheld. even being a top house, everyone needs to be reminded of the ideals of the fraternity. alot of chapters who are top tier get shut down from not being values-based.

KyleMcGuire1983 · #6 01-23-2008, 04:45 AM

Evan Williams.............Jack Daniel's cheaper and nastier cousin. Nice display name.

Crappy situation. If I were you I'd just keep up resistance until you graduate, don't compromise your principles and don't surrender by going "inactive" or "early alum". It drives me nuts when I see a brother resign from an office or stop putting in effort when things don't go in his way (whether or not he's right!)

Leslie Anne · #7 01-23-2008, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSteven

Then with all due respect, your brother's "views" will - and should be - "best" for the chapter (as a whole).

I disagree. Especially when it comes to being superficial sometimes a kind of "mob mentality" takes over. It's up to the clear-headed ones to knock some sense into people.

To the OP, I think it's great that you're letting your thoughts on the matter be known. Keep doing that. Stand your ground and there's got to be some other brothers who feel the same way and will respect your standards. You might be able to build a power-base from there.

If not, at least you know which brothers share your values. You might not be able to turn the chapter around (who knows?) but you'll know who to hang out with.

Good luck!

AOII Angel · #8 01-23-2008, 08:53 AM

Your chapter is suffering from success! When you work to improve the status of your chapter in order to get the guys that only want to go to top tier groups, then those guys will only want top tier guys. It's a nasty reality that people who are satisfied with their membership but not their tier don't think about when they dream of bigger things. Often, this means that you create a group that wouldn't pledge you again if you went through rush. It's very difficult to find a happy medium in that situation.

33girl · #9 01-23-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Often, this means that you create a group that wouldn't pledge you again if you went through rush.

It can also alienate the hell out of your alumni. Every alum wants to see their chapter succeed, but not at the expense of the things they loved about it most - and not if they feel hella uncomfortable when they come back to visit because they know the actives are thinking "I can't believe SHE ever got a bid from US."

I agree w/ Kyle & Leslie Anne - stand your ground and say that if you got to be top tier based on looks and clothes, you can become bottom tier just as quickly.

AlethiaSi · #10 01-23-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

It can also alienate the hell out of your alumni. Every alum wants to see their chapter succeed, but not at the expense of the things they loved about it most - and not if they feel hella uncomfortable when they come back to visit because they know the actives are thinking "I can't believe SHE ever got a bid from US."

I agree w/ Kyle & Leslie Anne - stand your ground and say that if you got to be top tier based on looks and clothes, you can become bottom tier just as quickly.

I completely agree with this. We didn't have a tier system at my school that was put into place, but some were just more popular (maybe this is a natural tier system....) than others. My organization enjoyed popularity for many many years (about 70 or so), and in the late 1990's declined due to resurgence of other org's and some other factors. When we started to create a name for ourselves, and became more popular, our most recent alumni were the ones that "let the sorority go" when it wasn't all their fault, and they are great girls (women lol). Many of our actives turned their noses up at our alumni, and it was detrimental, because we didn't have the support we needed down the road (which I had warned them about).

My point is, along with what everyone else said, I also suggest that you stand your ground, and eventually, you'll find brother's that share your views, and stay with them. It is frustrating, but giving up doesn't do any good either (not that you would, but it's tempting, I know)
good luck.

EvanWilliams · #11 01-23-2008, 05:00 PM

TSteven,
I should have been more clear. I do make my views known. I think it would be fair to say that I vote with about 25% of the chapter on most issues. The other 75% are craving success in every possible scenario and act like tools sometimes when they try and "do what's best for the chapter."
EX: raising dues from $1400 to $1600 - a semester! As though we're not above campus average anyway.
I should also note that I'm not bitter at all- just disappointed with the cutthroat changes that are taking place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Evan Williams.............Jack Daniel's cheaper and nastier cousin. Nice display name.

Crappy situation. If I were you I'd just keep up resistance until you graduate, don't compromise your principles and don't surrender by going "inactive" or "early alum". It drives me nuts when I see a brother resign from an office or stop putting in effort when things don't go in his way (whether or not he's right!)

Haha, I was hoping someone would be stalking "me" on Google like they do the sorority rushees.
I'd like to reinforce the idea that there is much more good than bad, so I won't be going inactive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I disagree. Especially when it comes to being superficial sometimes a kind of "mob mentality" takes over. It's up to the clear-headed ones to knock some sense into people.

Good luck!

That's exactly the right phrase!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

It can also alienate the hell out of your alumni. Every alum wants to see their chapter succeed, but not at the expense of the things they loved about it most - and not if they feel hella uncomfortable when they come back to visit because they know the actives are thinking "I can't believe SHE ever got a bid from US."

I agree w/ Kyle & Leslie Anne - stand your ground and say that if you got to be top tier based on looks and clothes, you can become bottom tier just as quickly.

BINGO. Our recent alumni never come around anymore. I'd like to think that I'd get a bid if I rushed now, but who knows.

EvanWilliams · #12 01-23-2008, 05:00 PM

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far! Great advice!

EE-BO · #13 01-23-2008, 05:16 PM

This is a good thread and it shows how things work in some Greek systems- including where I went to school.

Every fraternity with a solid core of brothers that is financially solvent is a perfectly fine chapter that is the right "home" for somebody.

But that is completely separate from being in the top tier socially in a large Greek system at a school where Greek life is an important part of one's social path.

I think this matters a lot more in the South- hence the frequent reference to "Southern"
greek systems (of which I am a product myself), but the real core issue is one of whether being Greek at a particular school has a lot of overlap with one's personal social status and future professional connections.

Being a top tier chapter is expensive. I know $1,600 a semester in dues sounds high to you- but mine were $2,500 ten years ago, and I lived in the house! (People not living in the house paid even more.)

On the matters of rush, sure how people dress seems superficial- but it is not entirely so. How a person dresses says a lot about where they came from, what is important to them, and how much money they have.

Even at your old dues rate of $1,400 a semester, it is important to know that the guys you pledge are going to be able to pay those dues for 4 years. What car they drive and what their parents do for a living is also important when considering these factors.

It is not just the dues after all. Formals alone were $500+ events for actives when I was around between tuxedo rentals, dinner out etc.

Being a top tier chapter means you need to have members who can afford to spend several thousand dollars a year on social events and dues, and not miss the money.

And if there are no shortage of rushees who meet that criteria, then you have to be selective using financial means as a basic qualification.

Let me ask you something, in the last 2 years has your chapter rushed most of its newer members from a small number of high schools? This is usually how this kind of thing gets started- not just your specific situation but any situation where the general character of a chapter begins to make a fundamental shift.

Whether public or private, each individual high school sending lots of kids to college is going to have a predominance of students at a certain financial level and with a general social scene.

If a fraternity gets to where most of its members come from just a handful of similar high schools (which is very common at top tier southern chapters), then those attitudes can dominate the tone of the chapter.

This happens especially in higher social tiers because people at that level tend to remain within their own inner circle for life. Not everyone does- but it is certainly a "home base" comfort zone. And so in this case a fraternity becomes one more step in a pretty set path in life socially as opposed to being a new experience in a more diverse environment.

One is not better or worse than the other, but there it is.

EE-BO · #14 01-23-2008, 05:21 PM

PS- going back to the thread of your title, is it possible that maybe you are just tiring a bit of everything you see? In other words, was this same rush approach already happening to a certain extent when you joined?

There is nothing wrong with getting a bit tired of the whole "Greek" thing in your junior and senior years. In fact, I think that is a good sign that you are growing up.

While what someone wears or drives matters when rushing in a huge way, in the real world this is not how you will choose your employees or professional associates (at least not if you want to be successful and respected)- so it is a good thing to realize that the whole rush process matters at that time in life, but is not a good way to go about life in general.

EvanWilliams · #15 01-23-2008, 05:27 PM

I'm on the same page as you, EE.
The problem I have with a dues increase is that we are losing out on many quality guys because of finances. I see your point because you are right. There are plenty of guys to choose from even after we jack the prices up.
And I agree that dressing appropriately is very important. Sure, I rock the sperrys and polos- but only because that's what I grew up on. Not everyone did, and again, sometimes we are missing out because someone wore an Izod.

As far as the high school thing goes- no. We're not recruiting heavily from the same schools.
BUT, we are bringing in more from the same bigger cities and less from the small towns. Maybe that has something to do with it...