UConn Hazing

[Tom Earp]

"Katie" interview with / about KKG and SAE hazing!


http://katiecouric.com/videos/a-kati...-hillary-holt/

[Nanners52674]

Gloria Alred is her attorney, are you kidding me? She's a 22 yr old active member, why didn't she just leave. Did she try to leave? Was she threatened or persuaded to stay?

I thought she was out for attention from the beginning when the first person she contacted from the ER was the news.

Now she's on Katie telling her story. It's ridiculous.

[Just interested]

According to the interview it was the police she contacted first.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Gloria Alred is her attorney, are you kidding me? She's a 22 yr old active member, why didn't she just leave. Did she try to leave? Was she threatened or persuaded to stay?

I thought she was out for attention from the beginning when the first person she contacted from the ER was the news.

Now she's on Katie telling her story. It's ridiculous.

In the video posted above Hillary mentions she's from Hawaii.

That said, please think about the life perspective she brought with her when she entered college and before/during the alleged hazing.

Hillary reacted based upon a life perspective that did not include ignoring what she believed occurred. Being interviewed for her side of the story may seem natural to her because she's seen it done time and again in the media. Thus, she's not necessarily out for attention.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Gloria Allred is her attorney, are you kidding me? She's a 22 yr old active member, why didn't she just leave. Did she try to leave? Was she threatened or persuaded to stay?

I thought she was out for attention from the beginning when the first person she contacted from the ER was the news.

Now she's on Katie telling her story. It's ridiculous.

Forced to drink, forced to go from room to room, forced to walk down into the basement, "we had to play beer pong" - Did they shove a gun in her face? Did they barricade the doors, preventing her from leaving? She wasn't an 18 year old freshman who thinks they have to do everything they're told to do in order to "get in".

She was 22, an initiated member, a junior with life experience, and seemingly able to assess situations and sense danger. Yet, the story she tells sounds like it was pure coercion; she uses the word "forced" several times.

• She "was picked up and taken to dinner then driven to a fraternity house", led to the back of the house

• She "was picked up and taken to dinner then driven to a fraternity house".

• Driven to fraternity house, led to the back of the house, and saw the door of a room was open, where they were "supposed to enter". She said that the room made her feel intimidated.

• She entered the room where 3 girls were blindfolded and about 10 other un-blindfolded KKG and SAE members standing around.

• Told them to line up against the wall, silently, for about 20 minutes, during which the had to fry like bacon, jump while holding their ankles, cursing and "professing our love for Kappa"

• "Beers slammed down in front of our faces", "forced to take shots" (3), given a piece of string and more alcohol.

• Led to another room and there were bottles of alcohol, then led downstairs to the basement where they played beer pong (why didn't she just leave???) and "forced" to drink whether she answered questions right or wrong.

• Katie asks if she was scared or did you ever say you didn't want to drink anymore?
  She answers:
  "I held onto the bottle of wine for a while because I didn't want to drink it at that point because I'm a lightweight, I'm small, I'm 105 pounds, so I knew my limits". Says she isn't "one of those girls" who drinks every weekend.

• She blacked out, woke up alone in hospital.

• Gloria Allred states that UConn investigation says that Hillary was "required to take quite a bit of alcohol", but when she was brought bad to her dorm, a fellow KKG didn't want to send her to hospital but an RA insisted.

• Father says Hillary was hazed, parents and daughter filed a claim with Community Standards and police investigated. Gloria Allred wants "justice" to help Hillary "who was significantly harmed". Hillary said that she's essentially ignored by KKG and SAE on campus.

Hillary started an organization to help hazing victims.

Now, it's not my intent to blame the victim, but this 22 year-old adult had several apparent opportunities to leave the location, claims she was "forced to drink" but stated only that she felt "intimidated" upon entering the first room, and answers that she "knew her limits" when asked if she ever refused to drink.

I understand the dichotomy - how scary, difficult to say now, and how vulnerable that real hazing can make you feel, and on the flip side, it's easy to look at complying with hazing orders as that the person "let" themselves be hazed - but there seem to be many holes in the story.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the girl drank too much, ended up at the hospital, feared punishment from the Judicial board, and exaggerated the story. I could be wrong, but I just don't feel like anything was "forced."

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Forced to drink, forced to go from room to room, forced to walk down into the basement, "we had to play beer pong" - Did they shove a gun in her face? Did they baraacde the doors, preventing her from leaving? She wasn't an 18 year old freshman who thinks they have to do everything they're told to do in order to "get in".

She was 22, an initiated member, a junior with life experience, and seemingly able to assess situations and sense danger. Yet, the story she tells sounds like it was pure coercement; she uses the word "forced" several times.

• She "was picked up and taken to dinner then driven to a fraternity house", led to the back of the house

• She "was picked up and taken to dinner then driven to a fraternity house".
  Driven to fraternity house, led to the back of the house, and saw the door of a room was open, where they were "supposed to enter". She said that the room made her feel intimidated.

• She entered the room where 3 girls were blindfolded and about 10 other un-blindfolded KKG and SAE members standing around.

• Told them to line up against the wall, silently, for about 20 minutes, during which the had to fry like bacon, jump while holding their ankles, cursing and "professing our love for Kappa"
  

• "Beers slammed down in front of our faces", "forced to take shots" (3), given a piece of string and more alcohol.

• Led to another room and there were bottles of alcohol, then led downstairs to the basement where they played beer pong (why didn't she just leave???) and "forced" to drink whether she answered questions right or wrong.

• Katie asks if she was scared or did you ever say you didn't want to drink anymore?
  She answers:
  "I held onto the bottle of wine for a while because I didn't want to drink it at that point because I'm a lightweight, I'm small, I'm 105 pounds, so I knew my limits". Says she isn't "one of those girls" who drinks every weekend.

• She blacked out, woke up alone in hospital.

• Gloria Allred states that UConn investigation says that Hillary was "required to take quite a bit of alcohol", but when she was brought bad to her dorm, a fellow KKG didn't want to send her to hospital but an RA insisted.

• Father says Hillary was hazed, parents and daughter filed a claim with Community Standards and police investigated. Gloria Allred wants "justice" to help Hillary "who was significantly harmed". Hillary said that she's essentially ignored by KKG and SAE on campus.

Hillary started an organization to help hazing victims.

Now, it's not my intent to blame the victim, but this 22 year-old adult had several apparent opportunities to leave the location, claims she was "forced to drink" but stated only that she felt "intimidated" upon entering the first room, and answers that she "knew her limits" when asked if she ever refused to drink.

I understand the dichotomy - how scary and how real hazing can feel, and on the flip side, it's easy to look at complying with hazing orders as that the person "let" themselves be hazed - but there seem to be many holes in the story.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the girl drank too much, ended up at the hospital, feared punishment from the Judicial board, and exaggerated the story. I could be wrong, but I just don't feel like anything was "forced."

I agree with everything you've said here.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In the video posted above Hillary mentions she's from Hawaii.

That said, please think about the life perspective she brought with her when she entered college and before/during the alleged hazing.

Hillary reacted based upon a life perspective that did not include ignoring what she believed occurred. Being interviewed for her side of the story may seem natural to her because she's seen it done time and again in the media. Thus, she's not necessarily out for attention.

I don't understand what being from Hawaii has to do with creating a life perspective in which going to the media does not equate to being out for attention. One may always refuse to speak to the media.

[GburgSig]

So, just to clarify, she was an active member at the time the hazing occurred? Why didn't she just walk out? It's not like she was a pledge who was having her initiation held over if she didn't comply.

[ASTalumna06]

I'm not going to presume anything about this situation and whether or not she had a "motive" for reporting Kappa and SAE for hazing, but let's not pretend that you can't be hazed as an initiated member.

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I don't understand what being from Hawaii has to do with creating a life perspective in which going to the media does not equate to being out for attention. One may always refuse to speak to the media.

Growing up in Hawaii means that she didn't have much if any direct exposure to Greek life. She didn't have a lot of older friends who would share stories of their Greek experiences. More importantly, she started college in Hawaii so she didn't have first-hand experience with traditional Greek life unless she happened to attend the one Hawaii campus which has an NPC chapter. My point is that by the time she transferred to UConn she was well beyond the impressionable age where you just accept things the way they are, which is what happens with many younger college students. A girl with Hillary's background would be much more likely to speak out publicly against something she felt was wrong.

Does this automatically mean she didn't willingly partake in all that alcohol? We have no way to know.

[DrPhil]

OPhiAGinger, I don't see a connection between having minimal or no exposure to Greek Life and speaking to the media/the involvement of Gloria Allred.

There are colleges and universities in Hawaii and at least one school has Greek Life.

Moreover, the average college student in the USA has minimal or no exposure to Greek Life. That's especially the case for first generation college students and racial and ethnic minorities. Yet most of these people wouldn't think to go to the media to report an unfavorable experience as a pledge, let alone as an active member. For most of these people even contacting the school is a huge feat so contacting the police is relatively uncommon. They definitely would be unlikely to contact the media.

Luckily, some of our GLOs expel members (and ban applicants for membership) if they report something that was either fabricated or was their own doing (having regrets doesn't mean someone harmed you against your will).

[Kevin]

When Gloria Allred enters the picture, I tend to have little sympathy for the "victim." At that point, it has become about media attention and a big settlement check.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

OPhiAGinger, I don't see a connection between having minimal or no exposure to Greek Life and speaking to the media/the involvement of Gloria Allred.

This.

Originally Posted by Kevin

When Gloria Allred enters the picture, I tend to have little sympathy for the "victim." At that point, it has become about media attention and a big settlement check.

And this.

[GburgSig]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not going to presume anything about this situation and whether or not she had a "motive" for reporting Kappa and SAE for hazing, but let's not pretend that you can't be hazed as an initiated member.

Oh I agree that you can be hazed as an initiated member, I just think its much more uncommon.

[ukdzccd]

The drive to "fit in" and not risk being made fun of or ostracized from your circle of friends is very powerful. It doesn't matter if the member is a new member/pledge, initiated member, or alumna/alumni. It's all well-and-good to sit here and say she should have done this or that but, let's be honest, it's really hard to stand up and leave a situation like this because of the amount of peer pressure a person is under to just go along with it because "it's always been done that way".

Let's stop blaming the person who the hazing was done to.