Overheard at Starbucks today....

[Benzgirl]

While I was in line, there was a lady behind me who just answered her phone.

"I didn't get any sleep last night. She only got an invite back to one house that she liked. She was cut by both DG and Chi O".

pause

"She only has one left that she likes"

pause

"I don't think recs make any difference any more"

and then the Barrista called me up

I'm pretty sure which university this is since there is Pref today at one of the larger universities that students commonly attend, and both of those chapters are on that campus. I so much wanted to talk to the mom since I think there is still a misconception that RIFs get you invited back to houses but had to be somewhere quickly.

Just a thought, wouldn't it be nice if each chapter placed a disclaimer on their RIFs that stated that completing this form does not guarantee an invitation to join the chapter or to attend any parties beyond the first? Maybe I'm still living in la la land!

[Titchou]

It doesn't even guarantee you an invite to first invitationals at some schools.

[AZTheta]

What gets me about what the person said: "only has one left that she likes". Damned lucky she has that, IMO. The perception that the PNM will pick and choose from the ones she likes and be in charge just absolutely slays me. Do simple math, people. The competition is insane.

(kind of stabby, still, obviously.)

[Missouri Ivy]

I'd have to double check, but I think we have a disclaimer along those lines either on our form or the part of the website where the link is located.

[DaffyKD]

Disclaimer is irrelevant if the PNM and her mother never see the actual recommendation that is sent. When I am asked to do one, it is online and is never seen by the PNM.

DaffyKD

[ASTalumna06]

There should be a disclaimer (yelled from the rooftops, if necessary) to all PNMs that nothing guarantees you a bid; not recs, grades, looks, personality, etc. Some special snowflakes have it all, and they're still left without a bid (or without an invitation to the "best" chapters).

I just don't know why people still think that in a system that spends so much time, money, and effort to put on recruitment, where PNMs dress to impress and have to polish their conversation skills, that a recommendation is a guaranteed "in". In what world are they living? I don't bring 3 good references into a job interview and think, "looks like I've got this one in the bag."

It's frustrating.

[33girl]

It's stuff like this that makes me think that maybe we should get rid of recs and legacies, period.

I understand that the original concept was to introduce women you knew to the sorority you loved because both would benefit - the sorority would get a girl you knew was awesome and the girl would get the sisterhood that contributed so much to your life. But somewhere along the way, it seems like the whole thing got corrupted.

Maybe this is another "I'm not a mom" thing, but I can't imagine being mad at my chapter because 20 years after I was in it, they didn't like a girl I was related to or that I liked. Heck, when I was IN school there were girls I was friends with and loved dearly that my sisters couldn't stand. That doesn't mean I threw a tantrum and acted like she "deserved" membership just because she knew me.

If you can't find friends on your own merits, are they really your friends at all?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's stuff like this that makes me think that maybe we should get rid of recs and legacies, period.

I understand that the original concept was to introduce women you knew to the sorority you loved because both would benefit - the sorority would get a girl you knew was awesome and the girl would get the sisterhood that contributed so much to your life. But somewhere along the way, it seems like the whole thing got corrupted.

Maybe this is another "I'm not a mom" thing, but I can't imagine being mad at my chapter because 20 years after I was in it, they didn't like a girl I was related to or that I liked. Heck, when I was IN school there were girls I was friends with and loved dearly that my sisters couldn't stand. That doesn't mean I threw a tantrum and acted like she "deserved" membership just because she knew me.

If you can't find friends on your own merits, are they really your friends at all?

I completely agree, at least on the legacy part. I can kind of see both sides of the rec argument (but only in ridiculously huge recruitments do I think they should be utilized).

As for legacies, there are simply too many now. Heck, there are just too many PNMs in general. Too many PNMs + RFM = chapters wondering how they're going to cut so many PNMs = cutting PNMs who are legacies to other chapters. We've seen it happen. In some cases, it's detrimental to an open-minded legacy who wants to explore all of her options.

And of course, there are now so many legacies that in some cases, even if a chapter's entire pledge class was made of legacies, they still wouldn't fit them all in. And maybe that chapter gave a bid to the open-minded PNM who ultimately felt at home at a different chapter, and the PNM who desperately wanted in (and whose mom is going to be pissed) didn't get a bid.

And while I don't want to start a North vs South war, I think the idea of doing away with legacy status would be met with much more resistance in the south than it would in the north.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

And while I don't want to start a North vs South war, I think the idea of doing away with legacy status would be met with much more resistance in the south than it would in the north.

That would be true.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's stuff like this that makes me think that maybe we should get rid of recs and legacies, period.

I've thought this before, but I suspect the rec/legacy tradition has such a tight grip that even talking about putting an end to it would cause an uproar.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I completely agree, at least on the legacy part. I can kind of see both sides of the rec argument (but only in ridiculously huge recruitments do I think they should be utilized).

Interesting - I've thought exactly the opposite. Since it seems that the purpose recs serve at ridiculously huge recruitments is often to separate those who know which hoops to jump through from those who don't, I'm not sure that's a good reason to continue using them. But at smaller schools, where recs are used as actual introductions/character-vouchers, I can see a real benefit to them.

Either way, I doubt it'll make a difference. I don't see the rec or legacy practice changing any time soon.

[ADqtPiMel]

I wonder if this is the school I think it is based on where you are and the status of DG/Chi O. If so, recs aren't even common there.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

I wonder if this is the school I think it is based on where you are and the status of DG/Chi O. If so, recs aren't even common there.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

I wonder if this is the school I think it is based on where you are and the status of DG/Chi O. If so, recs aren't even common there.

Actually, it is a matter of NATIONAL policies that some GLOs require a rec to pledge their organizations. Recs are absolutely necessary regardless of the school.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Actually, it is a matter of NATIONAL policies that some GLOs require a rec to pledge their organizations. Recs are absolutely necessary regardless of the school.

Which is why she said...

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

I wonder if this is the school I think it is based on where you are and the status of DG/Chi O. If so, recs aren't even common there.

… instead of saying that they're not needed at all

Regardless, the point is that recs aren't the be-all and end-all of a successful recruitment.

[Nanners52674]

Do PNMS have the option of not notifying their legacy chapter and going through recruitment as a non-legacy?