Gun rights

[badgeguy]

Ok, I wanted to ask and start a debate on gun rights. I know a lot has been posted in the Newtown shooting thread, but wanted to focus that debate here.

I just have one question about the debate...how much money would the NRA, and the Gun manufacturers lose IF there were to be another assault weapons ban?

BG

[peppermint23]

To be honest I don't care about the NRA lol. I don't see a full ban happening in the US any time soon, but I don't see why anyone needs a gun other than for hunting (which I'm not a fan of, but whatever).

[adpimiz]

^ Self-defense. That's all I'm going to say on that topic.

Personally, I'm not totally against an assault-weapons ban. What really irks me is the way that the media promotes their own agenda and refuses to discuss any other solutions to help end violence other than gun control. Mental illness needs to be discussed as much, if not more, than gun control.

[DGTess]

PLEASE, if you're going to start this thread, define your terms.

What do *YOU* mean by "assault weapon"?

Given that so many publicly involved in this debate think a black stock and pistol grip make a .22 rifle into an "assault weapon", it would be useful to start from a common point.

[badgeguy]

Ok, I'll make it easier. Is the NRA or congress really looking out for our safety or does this whole issue really revolve around the gun manufacturers and the amount of money they would lose if a ban on any weapons were to be enforced....

To me, it seems that the issue is always about money and not much else.....it's all talk on one side or the other.....

And I guess I was referring to "assault" weapons as being defined by the media or congress...

[peppermint23]

Originally Posted by adpimiz

^ Self-defense. That's all I'm going to say on that topic.

Personally, I'm not totally against an assault-weapons ban. What really irks me is the way that the media promotes their own agenda and refuses to discuss any other solutions to help end violence other than gun control. Mental illness needs to be discussed as much, if not more, than gun control.

Self-defense against what, though? If it's against other guns, that doesn't alleviate the violence in situations. :/

[adpimiz]

Originally Posted by peppermint23

Self-defense against what, though? If it's against other guns, that doesn't alleviate the violence in situations. :/

Because a complete gun ban would never work. Criminals would obtain guns illegally, and law-abiding citizens would have no way to defend themselves against a psycho breaking down their door in the middle of the night (just as an example).

EDIT: I think I read your question wrong. I thought you were suggesting that no citizens own a gun (maybe you were?), and that was my response.

Yes, self-defense against criminals with guns. DGTess said it much better than I could, so I'll just refer to her response. The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, and police could be several minutes away.

[flirt5721]

Originally Posted by peppermint23

Self-defense against what, though? If it's against other guns, that doesn't alleviate the violence in situations. :/

Self defense against those that try to harm me. In Dec of 2011 I was attacked by a family member with a knife. He stabbed me 9 times. One of those cuts was to my jugular vain (not artery) and was bleeding internally for 2 day before the doctors found it during surgery to repair the nerve on my face. As you can imagine I was in fear for my life from someone that did not have a gun but a knife. My husband has a 9 mm that was always put away. I did not have an issue with guns then; it was never my thing. After the attack mu husband's 9 mm is always with me at home. If I would have had the gun closer to me that night I'm sure that I would not have had as many injuries or my sister would not have gotten hurt.

That night completely changed my life and I am all for the right to own any kind of gun. The laws that the government is pushing are going to fail. Look at Mexico. Guns are illegal but yet they have a high rate of gun violence. Look at the war on drugs. MAJOR FAIL. Look at Prohabition. FAIL.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by flirt5721

Look at Mexico. Guns are illegal but yet they have a high rate of gun violence.

Private ownership of guns and the ability to possess them outside the home are unquestionably more restricted in Mexico than in the US, but guns are not illegal in Mexico.

And, of course, most of the illegal guns in Mexico come from the US.

Another example, I think, of how it's just not as simple as pointing to countries with strict gun control laws and policies or lax ones and drawing direct correlations to gun violence. There are too many other factors involved.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by flirt5721

The laws that the government is pushing are going to fail. Look at Mexico. Guns are illegal but yet they have a high rate of gun violence. Look at the war on drugs. MAJOR FAIL. Look at Prohabition. FAIL.

Look at England. Guns are illegal and even most cops don't carry because they don't have to. War on Drugs, the drugs are imported. Same thing with booze during prohibition. I don't support a firearm ban personally, but I don't think it is doomed to fail.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by adpimiz

^ Self-defense. That's all I'm going to say on that topic.

Personally, I'm not totally against an assault-weapons ban. What really irks me is the way that the media promotes their own agenda and refuses to discuss any other solutions to help end violence other than gun control. Mental illness needs to be discussed as much, if not more, than gun control.

I agree with this. However I don't think it's fair to say that only the liberal media is promoting their own agenda. The right wing media is just as bad.

[adpimiz]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I agree with this. However I don't think it's fair to say that only the liberal media is promoting their own agenda. The right wing media is just as bad.

I agree. However, I don't watch Fox News because I think they misinform their viewers, so I guess the liberal media seems louder to me.

Another thing that irks me is although I'm not completely against an assault weapon ban, I think the belief that it will help is ignorant. You can ban assault weapons all you want, but the crazy people will still be crazy. They will either a. Obtain a weapon illegally or b. do something else to murder mass numbers of people (ex. Oklahoma City bombing). As we can see from the fact that we can't take liquids onto planes, a bomb can be made of almost anything. Even without guns, the crazy people will find outlets for their craziness, for lack of a better word. That's why I think turning our focus, as a country, to treating mental illness will have a much better result in preventing violence.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by adpimiz

Another thing that irks me is although I'm not completely against an assault weapon ban, I think the belief that it will help is ignorant. You can ban assault weapons all you want, but the crazy people will still be crazy. They will either a. Obtain a weapon illegally or b. do something else to murder mass numbers of people (ex. Oklahoma City bombing). As we can see from the fact that we can't take liquids onto planes, a bomb can be made of almost anything. Even without guns, the crazy people will find outlets for their craziness, for lack of a better word. That's why I think turning our focus, as a country, to treating mental illness will have a much better result in preventing violence.

I haven't really taken a side one way or another on this issue.

That being said, I'm tired of arguments and analogies being thrown around that really make no sense. An argument like this - "why get rid of guns if people will just find another way to kill anyway?" - is like arguing that people should be allowed to take liquids through security at the airport because people will find a way to blow up the plane anyway. To say that we shouldn't make something illegal because people will do it anyway.. well again.. I'm sure you can see why this argument falls flat without my having to explain it.

Another thing that I keep reading/hearing all over the place is, "Maybe we should ban cars, and knives, and alcohol.. because all of those things kill people, too!" Yes, that's true. But they're not specifically made to kill. A person drives a car and they get in an ACCIDENT, and another person is killed. They didn't get in their car so that they could kill someone on their way to work in the morning. Apples and oranges, people.

I will definitely agree, though, that some (or possibly all) of our attention should be on mental health.

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Why is this issue always so "right side, left side"? I've read a lot from other countries and they never seem to make such issues so polarized....

Because that's how things are nowadays. It's sad. It's most likely a fact that more Republicans than Democrats believe that this gun ban talk is ludicrous, but any time I see someone argue against the ban, someone starts yelling, "You ignorant, redneck Republican!" and if someone argues for it, it's, "You hippy, big-government-loving Democrat!" There are so many assumptions thrown around peoples' political affiliation based on beliefs which us intelligent people know can cross party lines.

[badgeguy]

Why is this issue always so "right side, left side"? I've read a lot from other countries and they never seem to make such issues so polarized....

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by badgeguy

Why is this issue always so "right side, left side"? I've read a lot from other countries and they never seem to make such issues so polarized....

EVERY political issue is this way. It's not unique to the gun control thing.

/hating the two-party system
/gets off soapbox