More demands from Islam

[jon1856]

This is a rather interesting video from what seems to be a British version of Youtube.
Kind of what you could see at the end of 60 Minutes.
http://www.dotsub.com/films/moredema...etting=en_1618

[Drolefille]

First, the title. As if the religion is demanding anything.

Secondly I laughed when there was a comment about pharmacists refusing to sell birth control. I guess each country has its own religious conservatives who think that their version of God's law should be the country's law. The guy's clearly anti-Muslim. But really, who cares if there was a mosque, even a large one, in the same vicinity as the Olympics. The extremist issue doesn't seem to be a problem for him since he seems to think all Muslims fit into that category.

His points of freedom over faith and very legitimate criticisms of the Saudis are lost in the shuffle.

[epchick]

I'm sorry, I'm confused as to why its such a big problem for everyone else if Muslim clerks don't want to handle alcohol? That dude needs to take a chill pill.

I do semi-agree with his idea of Saudi Arabia and the royal family. But the idea of Islam=terrorism is soooo tired. Seriously, get over it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by epchick

Islam=terrorism is soooo tired. Seriously, get over it.

Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone is a terrorist, but it is a reliable indicator as to whether someone supports or participates in terrorism compared to individuals in other cultures/religions.

Also, the gentleman in the above linked video seems to be protesting a certain form of extremist Islam which is almost exclusively the breeding ground for terrorist ideology.

The idea is repeated so often because it has a kernel of truth.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone is a terrorist, but it is a reliable indicator as to whether someone supports or participates in terrorism compared to individuals in other cultures/religions.

Really is it now?

Me thinks the Brits have had a long experience with terrorism that isn't from just one ideology... just because this "special person" echos you're a not-so-closet bigotry when it comes to Islam doesn't make it so.

This guy just polishes up his xenophobia and underlying bigotry so that it doesn't come off so bad - doesn't change the fact that the underlying motivation for the message is still shit.

The idea is repeated so often because it has a kernel of truth.

The idea is often repeated by xenophobes and bigots, that doesn't make it true - especially given the same social issues (birth control, booze, women's rights, etc.) can be pointed to in parts of America and Canada that are very "Christian" or Mormon.

[Kevin]

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

[Kevlar281]

There are Beth Dins in the United States as well as England. Just saying...

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

Perfectly stated. What happened to common sense. You should certainly permit immigrants to come into the country but allowing them to change everything to be like the country that they EMIGRATED FROM is absolutely ridiculous. If you want traditional muslim law then go to Saudi Arabia, if you want western style government then you can live in America or the UK.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

There are Beth Dins in the United States as well as England. Just saying...

They don't have the legal authority to impose criminal punishments. If they do so, then the Beth Dins are criminal themselves.

I am as much against Sharia courts as I am Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrian courts.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

Call it what you will but it's still xenophobia fueled I suspect by a fair amount of bigotry. Culture and society evolves as the components within it change, to assume that change doesn't or shouldn't happen is about as ignorant as demanding that the culture should completely change - society is about accommodation and respect as well as adaptation, both parties need to learn this lest both fall prey to their particular bigotries.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

They shouldn't no - any more than the there should be religious courts for Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Christians, and yet I don't see the subject in this film commenting on those demands that have also been made repeatedly (well again - English tried the Fundie route under Cromwell before tossing them out) so I have to wonder why he is singling out the Muslims.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Call it what you will but it's still xenophobia fueled I suspect by a fair amount of bigotry. Culture and society evolves as the components within it change, to assume that change doesn't or shouldn't happen is about as ignorant as demanding that the culture should completely change - society is about accommodation and respect as well as adaptation, both parties need to learn this lest both fall prey to their particular bigotries.

Ah yes.. desiring to preserve one's culture makes one a "bigot." No, it's just the hyper-liberalized European way of thinking that is willing to seemingly set aside thousands of years worth of culture for a brand-spanking new immigrant group -- an immigrant group which as been known to harbor and protect individuals who have conspired to kill one's countrymen, treats its women like cattle, etc. I'm not talking about all Muslims, of course. The gentleman in the video makes the distinction as well. Fundamentalist Islam, however, is apparently quite popular in Europe. Like any fundamentalist belief, it is something to be resisted. As far as I know, the Greek Orthodox fundies are being left alone because they more-less keep to themselves. Islamic fundies? Not so much.

Behaving as they do, it's just a matter of time before the Europeans allow themselves to be steamrolled by a vocal minority.

They shouldn't no - any more than the there should be religious courts for Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Christians, and yet I don't see the subject in this film commenting on those demands thatd have also been made repeatedly (well again - English tried the Fundie route under Cromwell before tossing them out) so I have to wonder why he is singling out the Muslims.

So you must be a bigot for being against the Sharia courts then? You seem to want it both ways. What right do you have to say that the English courts are superior to the Sharia courts? At least try to be consistent in your position.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

No, it's everything around the legitimate points that he makes that makes him a xenophobe.

[skylark]

I think that there is a lot that we can do and should do to accommodate other belief systems and most of it is pretty reasonable most of the time. However... I do think there are limits and the alcohol/birth control thing crosses one of them.

I just don't think that anyone whose employment duties partially include selling alcohol and/or birth control can ask for an accommodation not to do so. Either work at a place that doesn't sell those things or suck it up and pray for the people who you're selling it to. Most people's paychecks are set salaries and aren't based on the actual things that you sell or do not sell. So if these people think that abstaining from selling alcohol but receiving the partial profits from that employer's spoils in the form of a paycheck is less hypocritical, I have a hard time thinking they're either idiots or else have an ulterior motive in wanting to impose their own religious beliefs on others.

Whenever I think about these situations (mainly the pharmacist/Plan B situation that Target and Walmart pharmacies condone) I can't help but wonder whether a McDonalds could be required to allow an kosher jewish employee to refuse to sell cheeseburgers. How would that go over at a McD's? "Oh I'm sorry, I'll have to get my gentile friend over here to ring up the cash register because -- no judgment -- but I think its a sin." Yeah, right.

[moe.ron]

So, who represent Islam?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone is a terrorist, but it is a reliable indicator as to whether someone supports or participates in terrorism compared to individuals in other cultures/religions.

Really? So, by your logic, if someone is Muslim they automatically support terrorism? I think that is such a skewed way of viewing people.

Muslims aren't the only terrorists in the world.