Italian nun shot dead by Somali gunmen

[PiKA2001]

MOGADISHU, Somalia - An Italian nun was shot dead at a hospital by Somali gunmen Sunday, hours after a leading Muslim cleric condemned Pope Benedict XVI for his remarks on Islam and violence

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060917/...lia_nun_killed


How unfortunate for this to happen. I hope the "brave" and "honorable" men that shot a unarmed nun in the back pay for what they did.

[Kevin]

Kind of proves the emporer who Benedict quoted's point, doesn't it?

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Kind of proves the emporer who Benedict quoted's point, doesn't it?

Ironically, yes it does.... if you've read the whole of the Emporer's discussion - and his fear that the Crusades have introduced a propensity for violence into the Muslim faith, and changed 'Jihad' from holy struggle to holy war.

The Emporer and the scholar were in discussion of what changes had been wrought in the Muslim faith since the writing of Sura 2, 256: ""There is no compulsion in religion", and how violence as a compulsion to conversion had been introduced into both Christian and Muslim faiths.

It was both a theological and practical debate, as the Byzantine Empire was rapidly falling before the advance of the Ottomans. The Emporer was musing whether or not Christianity had wrought it's own distruction in the East.

[Kevin]

Where are the moderate Muslims here? You'd think that if they were so against these acts of violence that they'd hold some counter-demonstrations, or things of that nature. Any GC Muslims want to weigh in on this?

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where are the moderate Muslims here? You'd think that if they were so against these acts of violence that they'd hold some counter-demonstrations, or things of that nature. Any GC Muslims want to weigh in on this?

I'm here. I'll weight on this one. This is a first I've heard of the nun, and it's despicable what the militia did---it's sickening. I have to read the article more.

On the whole Pope thing. Personally, I've seen it discussed on CNN ad neasum. To be honest with you, I'm just satisfied that the pope did apologize, but I don't think it was rally-worthy cause. Yes, it did hurt that the Pope would say something like that because the muslim community and the Pope had a good interfaith relationship. Now, I don't know anyone who's gone and rallied, but most people I know just brushed it off--which is something we've been doing alot of lately.

PS: I don't speak for the "moderate" muslims (and there is no designated moderate muslim leader that does speak for them FYI). So I can't tell you what you want to hear, unfortunately. Just my POV.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Ironically, yes it does.... if you've read the whole of the Emporer's discussion - and his fear that the Crusades have introduced a propensity for violence into the Muslim faith, and changed 'Jihad' from holy struggle to holy war.

I don't know why people don't understand that there's nothing "holy" about war.

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where are the moderate Muslims here? You'd think that if they were so against these acts of violence that they'd hold some counter-demonstrations, or things of that nature. Any GC Muslims want to weigh in on this?

There are Muslims that did accept the apology. It's acceptable to me. That's all I can say though, I can't speak for all Muslims.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mulattogyrl

There are Muslims that did accept the apology. It's acceptable to me. That's all I can say though, I can't speak for all Muslims.

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists? Is it because moderates are not really organized? Or is it because moderates fear retribution themselves?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists? Is it because moderates are not really organized? Or is it because moderates fear retribution themselves?

I suspect the organization. That and moderates don't tend to believe that demonstrations DO anything. I base this off my experience as a moderate watching my more liberal and conservative friends protest the war in Iraq and/or set up a table across from the protest saying "support our troops" Neither side made a damn bit of difference about the other sides feelings, or the moderates in the middle.

Standing up and saying "stop" is just getting attention and will not likely "stop" anyone

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists? Is it because moderates are not really organized? Or is it because moderates fear retribution themselves?

I'm not muslim, however, I think your last statement probably hits the nail on the head. In my mind, if I were a muslim who disagreed with the extremists I would probably want to fly under the radar. Making myself a target of crazy extremists wouldn't seem like a really good (or safe) choice. Just my opinion though.

Edited to add: I'm not sure if "moderate" is the right word to be using. I think someone could be very religious without being violent. Just a thought

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists?

No. The other GCers did a pretty good job though.

[KSig RC]

Wait - do Christian groups really get 'outspoken' or hold marches, etc. when a Christian radical does something ridiculous?

Were there marches and letters and massive anti-radical movements when, say, a radical Christian shot an abortion doctor? Did I somehow miss rallies decrying IRA violence?

I'm not even trying to compare apples-to-apples, but I wonder if we're asking something of the Muslim community that we've really seen before - or is Kevin's point that this requires more than what's been seen in the past?

I guess my question could be simplified to:
Are we holding mainstream Muslims to a higher standard when we ask what they are doing to counteract crimes by radicals?

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I guess my question could be simplified to:
Are we holding mainstream Muslims to a higher standard when we ask what they are doing to counteract crimes by radicals?

I think that by expecting them to protest the actions of the "extremists" it is definitely holding them to a higher standard than we hold any other group. With regards to your Christian radical comparison, that's very interesting...I never really made that connection before. I assume that the rest of the world would be able to see that the actions of a radical are not those which speak for the entire Christian community. As a result I wouldn't think it would be necessary for the mainstream to protest. It's interesting that mainstream Muslims don't get the same sort of assumption in their favor.

[Tom Earp]

Maybe protesting is fine but when did Allah give the right to kill?

If this Pope quoted something from the Crusades and it was a big deal, why would He do that anyway?

Defying The Crazies of any Religious Fanatics is rightous.

Killing in the name of Allah is against any teaching isn't it?

[Kevin]

I think I'd expect a different reaction from mainstream Christianity if extremism, killing, terrorism, etc. began to be accepted more generally as proper Christian things to do. I don't think the two are really comparable.

The IRA was/is more a nationalist movement than a religious one, so I don't really think that's an on-point comparison.