don't know what to do, don't want to skate.

[lost one]

thanks....

[Tom Earp]

Lost, why this one Fraternity (not frat) ?

While all Internationals are Great, the individual Chapters may not be to your liking! I can see why according to what you wrote!

LOOK at to other Fraternitys!

Our # 54 had his son join PSE because he did not want to be known as RAMBOS BOY! I think he wishes he had joined us but he is making changes in his Chapter!

There are GOOD people in many other Fraternitys. I do not beleive in Hazing and if I tried to join one and found that they did I would Damn Skippy not be a member of that Org!

Best of luck in your endevors!

[SilverTurtle]

lostone-

I am going to assume from some of the things you said that you are trying to pledge an NPHC member fraternity. ("underground", started at the beginning of the semester (which is a long ways back), you've wanted to join this particulary org. your whole life...)

To the best of my knowledge, all NPHC groups oppose hazing, and have MIP (<-- is it still called that?) in its place. And also, many, not all, chapters won't give you respect if you don't go 'underground'.
I see 4 immediate options for you:

• If the hazing was enough that you spoke up, then it was probably going waaay too far. Are there any local alumni you can talk to first? If they don't know what's going on, notify them. They can speak to the chapter and try to turn things around. Just knowing that the alumni are looking over their shoulders might make them shape up for the sake of the chapter.
  
• If there are not local alumni, or if the alumni are part of the problem, then you do have the option of going straight to nationals and reporting this. Of course, this will mean an investigation of, and possibly suspension of, the chapter. You may not be able to join that particular org. as an undergrad. Although as an NPHC group, you can join after graduation as well. If it's a group you really want to be a part of, then it's worth another couple years of the wait. I assume you have done research and believe in the principles of this organization, whether that particular chapter is exemplifying them or not.
  
• You can try and contact them. (I'm assuming you haven't). Tell them why you want to join so badly, and why you felt it necessary to speak up. And you might have to tell them about option #2 up there. If they think they can continue this behavior, they're wrong. Nationals are cracking down more and more, due to injuries, sometimes deaths!, insurance policies going up, etc. Does this chapter have a legit way of joining (MIP, or whatever?) If so, and you attempt to speak with them, you may be able to join that way. And you may not get all the respect you deserve for not going undergound from your chapter, but you would be part of a bigger organization, and one that is better than that. Granted, your undergrad years would be a challenge. Are you willing to take it?
  
• As Tom said, you can always look elsewhere. I understand that with NPHC orgs, you research and pick one and pursue it. But did you research all of them? Or did you choose one based on the few people you knew and things you heard prior to getting to college? You may find that this organization isn't the best one for you, regardless of others you know that love it. You may also consider organizations outside of the NPHC, which I guess you probably haven't done at all. Maybe you'll find none of these other options right for you, and decide not to go greek after all.

Whatever your decision, make sure it is right for you, and that you can deal with the consequences, whatever they are. It's unfortunate that chapters have this mentality today. There are some great pledging programs out there that leave no room for hazing, but still succeed in training men/women to grow and develop as individuals and as members of their chosen organization.

[DeltAlum]

This chapter is trouble. You will be happier (and safer) somewhere else.

Forget this crap about skating and maintain your self respect.