Etiquette?

[NoblesseOblige]

I'm the Collegiate-Alumnae Liaison for my chapter and I was thinking about holding a luncheon with our Alum chapter so all the girls can network and get to know the Alumnae chapter members... but recently we had an event that included dinner and I was a little worried by some of the table manners I saw. (Napkins for example are usually better than licking your fingers clean at the table.) I don't want to give up on my event idea, but at the same time I have NO CLUE how to broach the subject gently and politely so that we don't end up looking like really poor representatives for the sorority.

So: Has anyone else ever had this kind of problem? Does anyone have suggestions for how to politely try to remind people of certain points of etiquette? The only thing I can think of is to arrange a "business etiquette" seminar and make sure it covers table manners.... I'd love any ideas/help here....

[IrishLake]

We had this, only it was sponsored by the university. I think it's a great idea. It's something that will benefit everyone, and you can stress how important it is because job interviews can be held over lunch. That, and at some point you have to learn how to use the right silverware with the right meal course!

[KSUViolet06]

Different dorms/student orgs on my campus sponsored ettiquette dinners at our campus restaurant (catered by banquet staff). You could check into something like that at your university.

[DSTRen13]

When I was in college, we had a dinner at our advisor's house, and (since not everyone had been in formal dinner situations before, and there was no need to call anyone out individually on it or risk embarrassment by not educating people prior), we just did a powerpoint workshop on table etiquette in chapter.

[NoblesseOblige]

Thanks y'all... I think I'll talk to my advisor or the guy who oversees our Greek life and maybe one of the two can put me in touch with someone on University staff who can help arrange something like that.

[Gusteau]

Something that might make the prospect of an etiquette session more exciting for the women in your chapter is to co-host it with a fraternity. That way it can be a "fun" event that also serves a purpose, and will be something a lot of your members will be excited about.

[thetalady]

Maybe kind of tie it into a "Pretty Woman" theme...

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Do you have a house? This is the type of thing housemoms love to get involved in.

[DubaiSis]

Back in the day when I was "Quill Chair" (more or less the etiquette person) I put a note card on each table at formal dinners with a table etiquette rule (never divorce the salt from the pepper, food is always passed to the right, bread is always broken regardless of the size, only cut the piece of food you're about to eat, not the whole steak, unless you're a 4 year old that is, etc.) You can get ideas for this from any good etiquette book. I have been appalled at the sorority women I've known since college who don't know even these basics of table etiquette. Having a dinner with alums or a fraternity is a good way to test these skills, but I'd start teaching them now to avoid embarrassment at the big dinner, and giving it to them one small lesson at a time might teach without nagging or boring them to death. But I promise this is a life skill every body should know and will definitely use in later life.

I saw a thing on TV recently that kids are not even learning how to use knives and forks because everything they eat is fried finger food. How about THAT kid ending up in a sorority or fraternity? YIKES.

If you want a list of suggestions for note cards, PM me. I'll see if I can remember the 15 or so I came up with.

[pshsx1]

My chapter has an Etiquette Dinner every year and parents were even invited this time (last year, sororities were and we cooked for them).

Etiquette dinners run very smoothly and cheaply and they're not boring; they're pretty interesting.

[DrPhil]

Etiquette is generally a good thing and it helps you to mingle in different environments. However, I recommend caution for these kinds of programs for two reasons:

1. People have differing opinions on some parts of etiquette. Make sure you are teaching business etiquette and aren't just teaching "stereotypically southern etiquette."
2. Make sure you know the difference between table etiquette and "teaching gender." I believe in teaching people how to eat at the table and other basic things but I don't agree with teaching people things like "women have to do this and men have to do that." Some etiquette classes delve into the gender part of it all. Blah.

In other words, don't be surprised if some people are resistant to certain aspects of table etiquette because, beyond the formality of it all, some of it seems ridiculous to some people.

[IrishLake]

^^^ That reminds me of our formals one year. A sister brought a date who was from Georgia. Every time one of the females stood up to leave the table, he stood up too. We had NO idea why the hell he was doing it! He explained where he came from, that was the polite thing to do; when a lady leaves the table, any male present should rise to assist her if needed. We laughed, because he was up and down a LOT. It was not something we were used to in the slightest.

[DrPhil]

Bless his heart and in some settings he would've been considered the most awesomest of the awesome.*** However, I can't help but be a bit embarassed for him because he was doing what he had been socialized to do. Yet, he hadn't captured that what he had been socialized to do was perceived as strange in that environment.

*** I don't know whether this guy said this but I hope people don't say things like "I'm from Georgia and we..." as though what they were taught is what the average person from that area is taught. In reality, there are social class, generational, and racial and ethnic differences in what people are taught. That's also another issue with etiquette classes because you have to be able to teach more objective etiquette practices without delving into the social hierarchy of it all.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Etiquette is generally a good thing and it helps you to mingle in different environments. However, I recommend caution for these kinds of programs for two reasons:

1. People have differing opinions on some parts of etiquette. Make sure you are teaching business etiquette and aren't just teaching "stereotypically southern etiquette."
2. Make sure you know the difference between table etiquette and "teaching gender." I believe in teaching people how to eat at the table and other basic things but I don't agree with teaching people things like "women have to do this and men have to do that." Some etiquette classes delve into the gender part of it all. Blah.

In other words, don't be surprised if some people are resistant to certain aspects of table etiquette because, beyond the formality of it all, some of it seems ridiculous to some people.

It might seem ridiculous to you, but in formal situations in the south for instance, the man is supposed to stand up for women, open doors, etc. If he doesn't, it can be perceived as rude. The most important etiquette when it comes to the table is the basics, since that doesn't vary much, but it's important to know what's appropriate in your current setting. If it's not necessary to employ those customs in the current setting then by all means don't, but it's important to be armed with the knowledge for situations that call for it. Especially since for many people this will all come to play at some point in their careers.

It would definitely be worth it to have a seminar, and remind the ladies that these rules are important to understand (at the least, the basics, like you said...use the napkin). I wish my chapter had done etiquette lessons. I was forced into learning that stuff as a kid (which I now appreciate) but could always use a refresher and many girls could have used a basic lesson.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It might seem ridiculous to you, but in formal situations in the south for instance, the man is supposed to stand up for women, open doors, etc. If he doesn't, it can be perceived as rude.

LOL @ "supposed to" as though this is some objective standard.

It can be perceived as rude. The bolded is the operative phrase because context matters.

I'm from the south. A man not standing up for women and not always opening the doors for women has never made the building burn down at the many business meetings and (noncollegiate) galas that I have attended over the years. Opinions on etiquette matter because socialization patterns do not go unchallenged; and if you do an etiquette class where gender etiquette is brought up, don't be surprised if there are people who scoff. A smarter alternative is to teach them that context matters and you should be attentive to the context.