How many PMNs "know" before they even start recruitment?

[TriDeltaSallie]

Reading some of the threads about legacies and so on got me to wondering...

At the highly competitive schools, how many women "know" before recruitment that they will receive a bid to their legacy house?

I understand that no one truly knows until they have the bid in hand. And I'm not talking about dirty rushing or saying chapters are promising bids.

But given their connections and perhaps the prominence of their mother/sister/grandmother, what percentage of women do you think start recruitment with almost 100% certainty they will receive a bid to that chapter?

Thanks!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Reading some of the threads about legacies and so on got me to wondering...

At the highly competitive schools, how many women "know" before recruitment that they will receive a bid to their legacy house?

I understand that no one truly knows until they have the bid in hand. And I'm not talking about dirty rushing or saying chapters are promising bids.

But given their connections and perhaps the prominence of their mother/sister/grandmother, what percentage of women do you think start recruitment with almost 100% certainty they will receive a bid to that chapter?

Thanks!

It would absolutely vary from chapter to chapter to an extent that there's probably no way to know whatsoever. Without a psychic and one of those little attendance clicky counter things you couldn't even begin to count.

Also if you're not talking about dirty rushing or bid promising then you're really talking about girls who THINK they know since we've had multiple stories on here about prominent legacies dropping or being dropped by their legacy chapter.

[carnation]

Several years ago, it was easier to "know". I remember meeting one of the cheerleaders' girlfriends before rush started at our very competitive school. They had 1 particular chapter that was next to impossible to get into and he told me she'd be pledging that one. Even then, hardly anyone said anything like that, especially with that chapter! I asked him how he could know and he said, "She's (city name) 'royalty' and a double legacy through her mom and grandma, she'll get in." Happened just like he said.

Now at the same school, you can usually point someone out and say that she'll be in, say, 1 of maybe 4 certain groups (up to 8 with some other schools) but there are certain girls who will not, under any circumstances, fly under the radar and go unbid.

Before recruitment, no doubt that most girls can only say that they think they know.

[PhiMu_Lindz]

I know of one woman who was a quadruple legacy to one of the organizations on campus, including her grandmother who was the past national president. She was cut. Nothing is certain, even at a school that is not super competitive.

[honeychile]

^We had a 5-generation legacy who we would have loved to cut. This is the woman who really didn't want to go greek in the first place. We were told that she would be extended a bid, under no uncertain terms.



BTW, I was 99% sure that I would get a bid from my legacy chapter, but I went ADPi instead. I probably would have been happy with my legacy chapter, though.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PhiMu_Lindz

I know of one woman who was a quadruple legacy to one of the organizations on campus, including her grandmother who was the past national president. She was cut. Nothing is certain, even at a school that is not super competitive.

Yep.

1. Schools that are not "super competitve" still have ways of ranking PNMs/aspirants in terms of desirability and based on things like how many new members they want. Being a legacy does not mean that the legacy meets their cut-off point.

2. I'm not saying this is the case for the quadruple legacy, but overly confident legacies are annoying. Some legacies think they are damn near members and act very familiar with the GLO and the chapter. That's a good way to get axed. That's a step below wearing "future XYZ" and "my mother is an ABC" shirts around campus or wearing "ABC" socks around campus and saying "my mom bought these for me." Yes, folks, all of this does happen. The parents (or other reasons why the person's a legacy) are sometimes teaching these aspirants that this stuff is okay.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^This. Acting familiar is almost as annoying as saying you're a "future XYZ."

I don't think any legacy can really know for sure if they're going to get a bid.

I didn't go to a competitive school at all and yet I saw in-house legacies with sisters who were currently active get cut.

I tend to think that sister legacies are almost more complicated than mother-daughter legacies.

When sister is a current active (or even in some cases a VERY recent alumna) there is potential for the chapter's opinion of SISTER to affect the decisions they make about the legacy.

Ex: If sister is current President and other members seem to have drama with some decision that she's made lately, they might just feel like taking that out on Little Sister and getting her cut.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Ex: If sister is current President and other members seem to have drama with some decision that she's made lately, they might just feel like taking that out on Little Sister and getting her cut.

I've wondered if this happens as well in relation to a chapter's feelings about an adviser, district officer, national board, etc. Kind of the "well, you can make us do x, y or z against our will, but you can't make us extend a bid to anyone we don't want to." Membership selection is an area where the collegiate members really hold a great deal of power. As long as they follow the rules and procedures, there is nothing anyone can really do about the decisions they make.

[mittens]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yep.

1. Schools that are not "super competitve" still have ways of ranking PNMs/aspirants in terms of desirability and based on things like how many new members they want. Being a legacy does not mean that the legacy meets their cut-off point.

2. I'm not saying this is the case for the quadruple legacy, but overly confident legacies are annoying. Some legacies think they are damn near members and act very familiar with the GLO and the chapter. That's a good way to get axed. That's a step below wearing "future XYZ" and "my mother is an ABC" shirts around campus or wearing "ABC" socks around campus and saying "my mom bought these for me." Yes, folks, all of this does happen. The parents (or other reasons why the person's a legacy) are sometimes teaching these aspirants that this stuff is okay.

I hate those shirts that say "Future XYZ" I just saw a ONESIE that said "XYZ Legacy" on it. I just thought... oh god, here is an innocent kid going to grow up thinking they will be an XYZ!

I heard from a friend at one competitive school that PNMs know they will get a bid to ABC because actives literally came up to certain girls that are drop dead gorgeous, models, and cheerleaders and offered them a bid a week before recruitment even started. I have a hard time believing this because I would of expected them to be caught for dirty rushing already?? Is this common in other competitive schools?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I've wondered if this happens as well in relation to a chapter's feelings about an adviser, district officer, national board, etc. Kind of the "well, you can make us do x, y or z against our will, but you can't make us extend a bid to anyone we don't want to." Membership selection is an area where the collegiate members really hold a great deal of power. As long as they follow the rules and procedures, there is nothing anyone can really do about the decisions they make.

Judging from some of the posts I've read on here, that is sadly not always the case. And those rights also often decrease with the size/prestige of your chapter.

The only power some chapters can have is to treat the person like crap and ignore her after extending the bid and hope she quits. Which is why I think any chapter being forced to take anyone under any circumstance is a horrendous idea. Unless, of course, the woman pledging is only there for the doors XYZ letters will open in one or the other social circles she desires and could care less about sisterhood.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by mittens

I heard from a friend at one competitive school that PNMs know they will get a bid to ABC because actives literally came up to certain girls that are drop dead gorgeous, models, and cheerleaders and offered them a bid a week before recruitment even started. I have a hard time believing this because I would of expected them to be caught for dirty rushing already?? Is this common in other competitive schools?

If this is really truly happening I hope other chapters are filing recruitment infractions and so are the PNMs. This is bid promising, and it's 100% against the rules. Either it's happening and it's wrong, or your friend is a gossiping shrew who is either jealous of these chapters or the PNMs that are supposedly being promised.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Which is why I think any chapter being forced to take anyone under any circumstance is a horrendous idea.

I totally agree. Although, I think there are times when there's pressure on a chapter to take someone, but they're not forced. Both are wrong, but it seems to me (from the outside, as my chapter was never pressured or forced to take anyone, because really, who would bother with my dirty and disgusting COR/deferred formal recruitment campus/chapter) that a lot of chapters are pressured, but if they were still to not give a bid to the legacy or other PNM, probably nothing would happen to them.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by agzg

a lot of chapters are pressured, but if they were still to not give a bid to the legacy or other PNM, probably nothing would happen to them.

Maybe that's true, but a lot of times that isn't how it's presented. It's also a lot different when you're an active vs being a smartass alumna.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Maybe that's true, but a lot of times that isn't how it's presented. It's also a lot different when you're an active vs being a smartass alumna.

I definitely think it's different from our side versus the side of an active. I also think that pressuring a chapter into taking a PNM they don't want is wrong, completely. But I just wonder how many of the groups that do this type of pressure are prepared to rip a charter or follow through with some other threat should it actually happen.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by agzg

I definitely think it's different from our side versus the side of an active. I also think that pressuring a chapter into taking a PNM they don't want is wrong, completely. But I just wonder how many of the groups that do this type of pressure are prepared to rip a charter or follow through with some other threat should it actually happen.

Most of the time, the threat is empty. The alumnae are just trying to get the chapter to take as many as possible and they probably feel that the active girls are being "too picky" so they try to scare them into adding more warm bodies onto their invite lists. If they refuse, nothing happens, except a bunch of mad alumnae. lol.

[carnation]

What has happened to many chapters: they have lost thousands of dollars as well as considerable alum support--such as women to serve on their advisory boards, help at recruitment, etc. I have never seen a chapter of any sorority laugh and blow off the alums with "What can they do?" because unfortunately, many of them have found out.