Declared inactive (Feb 2009)

[naraht]

According to the changes in the Chapter List at the National Web Page, the following chapters are no longer active.

Pi Chi (V,65) - Duquesne University
Alpha Epsilon Rho (V,65) - West Liberty State College
Pi Beta (IX, 21) - University of Dubuque

I presume that this decision was made at the February Board meeting.

[Senusret I]

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I know, losing University of Dubuque shocked me as well.

Seriously, with Duquesne, there are only a couple of possibilities... One is that they haven't paid AAMDs for the last couple of years, which I really doubt. Another is Hazing, which my guess is that it would make the news. and the third and to me far most likely is that the chapter followed U of Maine and essentially dissolved themselves as Alpha Phi Omega and reformed themselves as Alpha Delta. In this case, the school would indicate that it no longer recognizes the APO chapter thus leading to it being declared N&V.

Randy

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by naraht

Seriously, with Duquesne, there are only a couple of possibilities... One is that they haven't paid AAMDs for the last couple of years, which I really doubt. Another is Hazing, which my guess is that it would make the news. and the third and to me far most likely is that the chapter followed U of Maine and essentially dissolved themselves as Alpha Phi Omega and reformed themselves as Alpha Delta. In this case, the school would indicate that it no longer recognizes the APO chapter thus leading to it being declared N&V.

Randy

Having spoken personally with several brothers from Duquesne, I can say with all but absolute certainty that they're crying two tears in a bucket over this inactive declaration.

Seriously, a bigger question would be would Alpha Phi Omega be able to come to Duquesne co-ed with Alpha Delta on campus (and remain after the initial petitioning group graduates)?

In any event, the original Pi Chi/Alpha Delta will be doing just fine.

[naraht]

Well, if they've indicated to the school they are no longer an APO chapter, then this would be expected by them.

Alpha Delta is in the Duquesne IFC, which basically means that once those who are brothers of APO have graduated, the school moves back to being a decent extension possibility. In fact in some ways having Alpha Delta there would be helpful in at least one way, if Gamma Sigma Sigma at Duquesne continues to consider Alpha Delta as their brother fraternity, they are less likely to affect an extension effort than the average GSS chapter.

As for Alpha Delta's situation at Duquesne, the school appears to have recently completed an effort to get rid of its locals either by having their affiliate with a National or by getting rid of them entirely. Yes, Alpha Delta is a national, but in terms of certain characteristics it is closer to some of the locals that they've gotten rid of than the Nationals that replaced them. Oddly enough I could see Alpha Delta at Duquesne getting some pressure to affiliate with an NIC fraternity (Just to pick one out of the air, Kappa Alpha Order doesn't have chapters at any of the three schools with Alpha Delta)

OTOH, I could see Alpha Delta being better able to handle the rules on who has to live in the dorms than the other Fraternities at Duquesne.

One other difference between Duquesne and Maine in terms of rechartering APO there at some time in the short term future. Section 94 (ME/NH/VT) is relatively poorly staffed with large distances between the chapters and although there are brothers at the new chapter at Husson College, ten miles away, section 94 probably has easier extension targets.

OTOH, Southwest PA (sections 65 & 66) have a fairly complete coverage of the Colleges and Universities in the area. In fact prior to the last couple of chapters going inactive, two year schools were actually serious targets (and I think still are). Duquesne is now by *far* the largest four year school (>10,000 total enrollment) in Southwest PA (and possibly Western PA) without a chapter. It also has at least 3 active chapters that can reach Duquesne by *a* city bus (no transfer!) (Pitt, Carnegie-Mellon and Carlow) and as best as I can tell by the amount of people on National/Regional Committees from the Pittsburgh area, experienced local staff as well. School's decision on having us return of course trumps all of this...


Yes, this has gone on longer than I intended...

YiLFS
Randy

[Quala67]

I find it sad that WLSC is inactive. They are a relatively NEW chapter - and already declared inactive? Apparrently they couldn't maintain after the initial set of charter brothers graduated.

*sigh*

[AndrewPiChi]

Originally Posted by naraht

Alpha Delta is in the Duquesne IFC, which basically means that once those who are brothers of APO have graduated, the school moves back to being a decent extension possibility. In fact in some ways having Alpha Delta there would be helpful in at least one way, if Gamma Sigma Sigma at Duquesne continues to consider Alpha Delta as their brother fraternity, they are less likely to affect an extension effort than the average GSS chapter.

As for Alpha Delta's situation at Duquesne, the school appears to have recently completed an effort to get rid of its locals either by having their affiliate with a National or by getting rid of them entirely. Yes, Alpha Delta is a national, but in terms of certain characteristics it is closer to some of the locals that they've gotten rid of than the Nationals that replaced them. Oddly enough I could see Alpha Delta at Duquesne getting some pressure to affiliate with an NIC fraternity (Just to pick one out of the air, Kappa Alpha Order doesn't have chapters at any of the three schools with Alpha Delta)

While there is nothing I can really do or say (nor would I ever interfer with an Alpha Phi Omega extension effort) to stop Alpha Phi Omega rechartering at Duquesne, wouldn't the 'new breed' of Alpha Phi Omega when they come back be slightly curious as to where 44 years of Alumni are....

And yes, Alpha Delta is National. It isn't local, has no plans to be local and unless the dice roll against us it won't be.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AndrewPiChi

While there is nothing I can really do or say (nor would I ever interfer with an Alpha Phi Omega extension effort) to stop Alpha Phi Omega rechartering at Duquesne, wouldn't the 'new breed' of Alpha Phi Omega when they come back be slightly curious as to where 44 years of Alumni are....

And yes, Alpha Delta is National. It isn't local, has no plans to be local and unless the dice roll against us it won't be.

While theoretically a rechartering effort has the same requirements as a chartering effort, attempting to contact alumni of the chapter and determine the prior chapter's incarnation history are part of the process for a rechartering effort. (But I think that's not in the checklist until the group is a PG.)

While theoretically, with the school's permission, Alpha Phi Omega could start a rechartering effort today, I *personally* think it is a *really* bad idea. I personally would not suggest it until at least half of the Alpha Delta brothers at Duquesne are not also brothers of Alpha Phi Omega. (The chapter may be defunct, but you and those initiated into Pi Chi chapter are my brothers). And waiting until there are no brothers of AD who are brothers of Alpha Phi Omega is probably a better idea. So at minimum, Fall of 2011, more likely Fall of 2013. (Yes, I know there are some people who take more than 4 years to get through.)

I don't believe that I indicated the Alpha Delta was a local. I am well aware that there were three groups that formed the National. However, if the school's desire for national greeks over local greeks was driven by desire to have its greeks have FIPG access, a significant fiscal cushion and other similar reasons, then Alpha Delta won't fit those desires much better than the locals did. I would be interested in what the smallest (by chapters) of the other members of the Duquesne IFC. Yes, they allowed Alpha Phi Omega and allow Gamma Sigma Sigma, but different rules for the socials and the non-socials at most schools.

Randy

[ques26]

Originally Posted by naraht

While theoretically a rechartering effort has the same requirements as a chartering effort, attempting to contact alumni of the chapter and determine the prior chapter's incarnation history are part of the process for a rechartering effort. (But I think that's not in the checklist until the group is a PG.)

While theoretically, with the school's permission, Alpha Phi Omega could start a rechartering effort today, I *personally* think it is a *really* bad idea. I personally would not suggest it until at least half of the Alpha Delta brothers at Duquesne are not also brothers of Alpha Phi Omega. (The chapter may be defunct, but you and those initiated into Pi Chi chapter are my brothers). And waiting until there are no brothers of AD who are brothers of Alpha Phi Omega is probably a better idea. So at minimum, Fall of 2011, more likely Fall of 2013. (Yes, I know there are some people who take more than 4 years to get through.)

I don't believe that I indicated the Alpha Delta was a local. I am well aware that there were three groups that formed the National. However, if the school's desire for national greeks over local greeks was driven by desire to have its greeks have FIPG access, a significant fiscal cushion and other similar reasons, then Alpha Delta won't fit those desires much better than the locals did. I would be interested in what the smallest (by chapters) of the other members of the Duquesne IFC. Yes, they allowed Alpha Phi Omega and allow Gamma Sigma Sigma, but different rules for the socials and the non-socials at most schools.

Randy

National is destroying this fraternity from what Frank Reed Horton want!

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by ques26

National is destroying this fraternity from what Frank Reed Horton want!

Did you attend the last national convention?

[emb021]

Originally Posted by ques26

National is destroying this fraternity from what Frank Reed Horton want!

Who is "National"?

Do you really know what FRH wanted?

[ques26]

I attend the NO and Kentucky. I received reports from brothers, who went to the Boston convention. I will be in Atlanta this summer cookout and the next conference in Atlanta. I had a conversation with a prominent brother from Howard. He had just sent the chapter at howard a email to produce a tribute for Big Brother L. Young. He had a conversation with the Prime Minister of Bermuda, A Brother and Howard alumni Brother. They will get it Done. Our alumni Association will be sending his widow a Gift. That how we do it. He help increase the frat minority chapters under his leadership with respect. I have talked to the chapters that have disbanded. There points are valid. We move on with our brotherhood. In marketing, we call what national doing is a disconnect.

[ques26]

Frank Reed Horton wanted a STANDARD of MANHOOD.. I am remaking a youth program on that Stardard.

[bro_strawter]

Wow! This is interesting. I still believe that our founders intended for the fraternity to be a fraternity of men (male) only! I am a founder of two organizations, and if the original intentions of those organizations was shifted, I'm sure I would be highly upset. However, I do understand both sides, as I pledged a co-ed chapter. It is disheartening to see chapters go inactive. I've heard way too many stories of how difficult it is to recruit male men to join the fraternity. Lets be real here, guys generally pledge a fraternity to be associated with a brotherhood of male men, not both male and female. I'm not sure at this point of what the solution should be to be honest. I use the term "male men" because I don't want it to be misinterpreted as in saying "all men are created equal," which many male/female brothers often refer to when referencing FRH's statement on a Standard of Manhood. Hell, you could simply refer to the original purpose to understand that he was NOT speaking in regards to females...it was very clear that he meant male men.

I personally don't have any issues with female APO's. My son's god mother is an APO, my BEST female friends are APO's, and again I pledged with females. However, what I do have a issue with is female APO's who make every attempt to carry themselves as male fraternity men, and those who shun brothers for respecting and carrying on all-male traditions. Some things are very sacred to a lot of male members in this fraternity. One cannot expect them to just forget about it and roll with the punches. Thats not gonna happen under any shape form or fashion.

I also do not like the mentality of some male/female brothers that have been displayed over the years, which pretty much says "if you don't like it, leave." Thats very unfair, and who the hell are you to tell a person that they must convert to your interpretation of the fraternity? I assume that this has been a battle that has been taking place since 1976. A battle that has gotten us all (as whole) no where. We should just respect each others opinions and keep it moving. I doubt that either side would ever see eye to eye on this.

[AndrewPiChi]

Frank Reed Horton wanted to find a fraternity to help keep young men out of trouble by placing before them a standard of manhood that would withstand the test of time. How do we know this? He wrote it down.

Unfortunatly, over the decades since 1976 the majority of Alpha Phi Omega Nationally is female. Does this have an impact on what the fraternity was intended to be? Yes. Do coed chapters and all male chapters operate differently? Yes.

The Nature of the fraternity has changed with this occuring and the reasons for why it was founded have been ignored to higlight the interpretation of what it is now, some say this is for the best, others say for the worst.

Now, a peaceful coexistance was preferable. Let each man rep his fraternity his own way, let chapters determine their own members, let the gentlemans agreement exist and let people stop complaining about it, let us all get along and stop wasting so much time and energy fighting on the issue and lets be about service and allow the fraternity to thrive and grow. However, due to the events of the 2006 National Convention, a few hard working and committed chapters were forced one way or the other. "Our way or the highway". Many did not ask how all male chapters felt on the subject.

Many forget and fail to understand that it wasn't that All Male Chapters were simply All Male by practice over the years. Many of us could have gone to go coed at any time. It was that we activly CHOOSE to be all male and fought for the right to do so constantly. The local option was in place so chapters would have the authority to decide what was best for them and keep chapters from leaving, by way allowing chapters the right to determine their own members. There is nothing wrong with that! With the national fraternity forcing its hand on this, it broke a long standing promiss to them.