Why I Left GreekChat

[BamaDad DZ]

Hello,

My daughter is a Bama DZ. I've always supported my daughter's interests, so it was quite natural to join GreekChat to learn about recruitment, the pledge process, and active sorority membership. When my daughter spoke about sorority life, my GreekChat studies permitted me to follow the conversation with some degree of familiarity. Then I received a disturbing private message from KaiKey (set forth below). Discretion prompted me to stop posting. Considerable time has passed, however, so I decided to state my reasons for leaving. KaiKey said it was my option to post the message, noting that "the truth is always a defense". Therein lies the question: Is Kaikey's opinion the truth? If anything, it may produce interesting commentary in a setting of healthy public debate. I've put the matter behind me, so I simply look forward to lively debate. Wishing you all the best, I will respectfully continue to observe GreekChat from the silent sidelines.

Dave (BamaDad DZ)

KaiKey
Registered User

Join Date: May 2003
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 12

i am trying to be very sensitive about what i am saying "bamadad dz" i truly want you to know how sensitive i am trying to be with this pm. this is not an easy pm but one that needs to be sent. i will explain.

while all of us on gc realize how proud you are of your daughter and how wonderful it is that she found dz at alabama, you may want to back off a bit expecially with your very defensive posts about dz national. without offense, and i am not a malicious nor "snarky" person, but you were admittedly not greek, so you do not "know" the system from the inside. you only have a very limited amount of information from one chapter about one chapter, certainly not the entire national sorority and national headquarters innerworkings and certainly not about other greek organizations, be it fraternities or sororities.

your daughter is at a very unique school, it is great she found her niche. however, you post clearly reveal that you "really do not get it" and that you really do not realize how naive and, sadly, how laughable you have become, especially given your most recent posts. anyone who has been at a large university, especially large prestigous southern ones - knows without a single doubt that dz is most likely the weakest national sorority. their reputation at depauw is, sadly, the reputation that they have all over the country, especially at the larger universities and most all presigious private colleges.

i really try to have a great panhellenic spirit and always strive for greek unity - that is why i am taking the time, and "the fall" for extending you the courtesy of letting you know that your posts are getting far too defensive of an organization that is nationally know as the "dawg house" or the "disease." One who has failed miserably at almost every single major university and exclusive private college where they have had chapters. Tht is not the "market" they serve. And, even worse, it hurts all national sororities. Therefore, most sororities are keenly aware of the national reputation of all other sororities and especially that of dz. sadly, the reputation of dz hurts many other sororities and their efforts to maintain strong and viable chapters more than any other member group of the npc.

they were and are a "teacher's sorority" and that is their "niche market" - they have good chapters at smaller, non-competitive schools, plain and simple. that is where they thrive and where they should stay and expand. all sororities want good chapters at major, "flagship" universities and colleges, but they do not want panhellenic to suffer and lose members consistently because of one particular group - delta zeta. there is no group immune from having a bad chapter or a chapter that is weak. everyone has chapters that struggle, but not to the national extent of dz.

we all want to be proud of our children and the choices they make. i am sorry, i am not being mean. it is has gotten to the point that your "blinders," loving as they may be, together with you total lack of a personal greek experience, have clouded how truly wonderful you think dz is. i am sorry, but it is not perceived that way by the vast majority of greeks and the greek system. it is nationally known as a very weak and very bad sorority, one to avoid at all costs. i do not know of a single chapter at a major or private school in the multi-state region where dz succeeded, they have had to close all of those chapters. even the chapters at the smaller schools were so happy when they finally closed down the "dawg house" or the "disease" at the larger schools as it hurt them and their reputation. people judged their chapters on the reputation of the dz chapters at the better schools. it was and continues to be a very sore subject for the smaller chapters that have done well. many alumnae are still very reluctant to reveal they are a dz. they were a constant embarassment to the better, smaller school chapters. it is really sad when you have chapters of a sorority contacting their national organization and begging them to close chapters at larger and better schools. this has happened frequently with dz.

please look at a "baird's manual of american college fraternities" annd you will easily see that they have more closed chapters than any other sorority. yes, there are other sororities that are very weak nationally, but not to the extent that dz is and continues to be. that is sad, but it is true.

not every organization is going to have the impressiveness and clout of the "big three" - kappa alpha theta, pi beta phi or kappa kappa gamma. they are so strong nationally and are among the best houses at almost every single school where they are located. dz sadly has failed miserably and cannot say that. just look at the depauw debacle and that is what most of their chapters are like and what they are called. it is sad, but it is true. it hurts all sororities and for that it has caused more harm than good, as when one group hurts the system, they hurt everyone and everyone in turn does everything they can to get rid of them at any expense.

when you continue to brag on and on about how wonderful the alabama dz's are - you, without even nowing it, are putting down the other sororities at 'bama. old time gc members who no longer post still pm one another. and believe me, they are really wondering how long it is going to take until you realize how truly awful they are on a national scale. i have nothing personal against dz. they were the smallest and the worst sorority on my campus. sadly, we stayed away from them like the plague. even worse, i was a rho chi and the pnm's refused to go to the "disease" house during rush, it was awful and it had a great impact, albeit negative, effect on other weaker chapters.

i know you are educated and you are an attorney. please believe me that i am honestly trying to be kind and professional in letting you know that you have become a "private joke" behind the scenes on gc. "teh cult" talks about you behind your back - pm's fly over your posts and how clueless you are. there are truly wonderful members of gc that talk on a regular basis and you have never seen them post. most do not like the more militant and juvenile bent it has recently taken. and, sadly, the alabama gc members of other sororities have discussed how weak the dz chapter is at 'bama and cringe at your posts and speculate about what you will inanely brag about next and what will happen when you find out dz is incredibly weak, both locally and especially nationally. your continual bragging and "one-upping" has become a running joke and it needs to stop for your sake and for the sake of your daughter.

i have had enough of people making fun of you and your daughter and dz. so, i will "take the fall" and be the one to tell you. as i said, i have nothing against dz personally. I love a great number of dz members i have met who went to smaller schools where they were good chapters. just know what you are bragging about and realize you are judging a very large but very mediocre group on one single chapter that you vicariously enjoy through your daughter. i am glad your daughter found a home with dz and that she loves it. but you need to realize you are not a dz and you will never be a dz and you do not need to continously brag about them and come to their defense. you are not a greek, you have not gone to larger "very souther, very greek" university and you do not personally know and have not personally experienced being a greek, especially in a system like that. even the weakest chapters will take quota as most girls want so badly to be in a sorority that they will settle for any bid they get.

have you not noticed that no members from the "old row" and old line" fraternities and sororities at the major "southern greek schools," especially members of those chapters at alabama have never commented on your daughter and dz. they privately do, but will never publically comment other than say that is sweet, it is nice, and that they hope she is happy and are glad she found a home. we try to be "pc on gc" and try to have a true greek spirit - but when you start arguing about how wonderful dz national is and you really do not know anything about it and the greek system, it is considered defensive for your daughter and casts you in a very negative light.

so, in conclusion, we are so glad that you daughter and dz are a wonderful fit. however, please realize you have very limited knowledge about what you are posting about. post knowledgeably and carefully, please. it is sad to see you and now your daughter become a running joke behind the scenes.

honestly, i am not being mean. i have absolutely no agenda, i am really a kind person and am trying to salvage what dignity and reputation you have on gc. that said, most highly placed and active top greeks have nothing to do with gc and ignore it, they have lives and gc is certainly not a part of it. however, alums look at it for recruitment purposes. we were proud you were so proud of your daughter. however, the ones i was the closest with were all terribly sad when you changed you screen name and then announced her choice. but it was her choice and if she found a home and she loves that home, that is wonderful. but be aware that all groups have a national reputation that goes far beyond their local reputation.

i really do not know how to do this without coming across as the worst person in the world. honestly, that is not my intent. this e-mail is intended for you and for you only. i would appreciate it if you did not disseminate it, but that is your choice. my only response would be, "the truth is always a defense."

kristin

[SWTXBelle]

I am stunned. Simply stunned. The pm speaks for itself, but not for me, Bamadad.
Please know that Kristin does NOT speak for me, or for anyone I know of, especially in regards to the national reputation of Delta Zeta ( admittedly it is currently tarnished, but there but for the grace of God . . . ).
I understand why you will no longer post - but please do not let the ignorant rantings of one self-important person colour your view of all greeks.
Are there those who might engage in the kind of junior-high antics described as being done by "teh cult"? Probably. I can't say, not being one. I truly have never understood those who try to make themselves feel superior by denigrating another GLO. Making fun of paternal devotion strikes me as a rather crude form of amusement. If they didn't like your posts, they need only put you on ignore.
I have to question why anyone would think that what people you don't even know are saying behind your back is worthy of being brought to your attention. How she thought it could come across as anything but snarky, bitchy and snobby is beyond me. This was one of those messages which should not be sent.
The most important thing is that your daughter is happy. What other Bama greeks, GC cult members, or anyone on the face of God's green earth thinks is immaterial. Your daughter is very lucky to have such a devoted father.

[PM_Mama00]

For what it's worth, I've never heard or seen anyone make fun of you. True or not, those are some horrible things to say. No one wants to hear those things about their chapter.

If your daughter is proud to be a DZ at her school or nationally, good for her. She's learned what true sisterhood is about.

[susan314]

So many thoughts are running through my mind right now, I'm not even sure how to express them. (Actually, I won't express most of my thoughts, because they aren't necessarily appropriate to share here.)

All I will say is this - please don't assume that this person represents the opinion of GreekChat as a whole.

[Tom Earp]

Hope you check this site. I am going to PM you so please keep checking.

Not one person does a Greek Chat Site make.

[dukemama]

BamaDad --

I am not a Greek myself but as a fellow parent I wanted to say that I'm sorry you received this PM. As others have said, I wouldn't base my opinion of GC on one person. I'm sure we've all heard negative things about most GLOs, and for Kristin to single out Delta Zeta -- regardless of what occurred at DePauw -- is very unfair.

I hope your daughter has a wonderful Greek experience at 'Bama, and you have every right to be proud of her!

dukemama

[fantASTic]

Besides agreeing with the above posts, I would like to say that Delta Zeta is one of the MOST prominent sororities at my school. We do socials and workshops with them often, and they are just a wonderful group of girls. I can't imagine this actually being true.

[DSTCHAOS]

I just skimmed that ridiculously long PM. Don't see what the big deal is. That person was being honest based on her perception. Nothing particularly offensive or immature about it. Perhaps some people were making fun of you and whatever else. It's not that serious either way.

One person doesn't make a site. That goes for people who stay and leave. So I'm not sure why it matters why you left GreekChat.

[mystikchick]

though i am not greek, nor am i privy to any of the messages being allegedly tossed around, your perspective is a unique one. it's so lovely to hear from a dad who so wholeheartedly supports his daughter and the organization that she clearly loves. for someone who says their post is not out to be mean-spirited, she says some extremely nasty things, including insinuating that your daughter only got a bid because dz was desperate to make quota. i have so many questions about what she said in her message (not least of which is how she knows about these messages as she isn't a very active GC member), but i hope you reconsider.

[honeychile]

While I really don't care to tear someone down, I'm going to make an exception with this person.

First of all, BamaDad DZ, I have heard nothing but good about you and your daughter since the day either of you showed up on GreekChat. I know that I've missed your posts, and doubt that I'm alone in feeling that way.

If you look at her profile, KaiKey has deleted all but 2 of her 12 posts - on threads that were about "loser sororities". The fact that she even took the time to write such a nasty-o-gram shows you a bit more of her personality.

She doesn't know much about the NPC, either. Delta Zeta has a lot of closed chapters because they made some wise choices in the first half of the twentieth century - absorbing several smaller sororities, many of which were on the same campus and/or teacher's sororities. So, one of those chapters had to close - that's why so many chapters are closed! I've been to a lot of campuses, and I can't say that Delta Zeta was a weak link on any one of them! Two of the DZ's with whom I've had the pleasure of working were Homecoming Queens - and trust me, neither were a fluke!

Yes, there's a dust up right now, and some people are having a bit too much fun with it - to quote SWTXBelle, "there but for the grace of God". But dust settles, and while DZ isn't going to win sainthood at DePauw, most reasonable GC posters know that it's ONE incident on ONE campus that probably should have been handled differently.

But to paint the rest of the lovely ladies of Delta Zeta with KaiKey's paintbrush would be a tragic mistake. Please take her PM for what it's worth, and put it through the shredder! She's the type of person who gives whatever she touches a bad name.

[susan314]

I find this line from the PM particularly amusing:

i really try to have a great panhellenic spirit and always strive for greek unity

[AlexMack]

For clarification sake-Teh Cult has never made fun of Bamadad DZ, to my knowledge (and as the self-appointed leader, I'm hoping I would know). It's really bad taste to try bringing other groups of people into a personal opinion. We don't know who Kaikey is but she doesn't speak for us.
On that note, BamaDad, you're going to do what you feel is best. That PM was way harsh. Just know that you were never a target of Teh Cult.
Also, really bad form hammering on DZ like that. I think everyone of us here has made it clear that we do not feel that IO's actions speak for DZ as a whole and we were condemning a few sisters, not the whole organization through the Depauw debacle.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by centaur532

For clarification sake-Teh Cult has never made fun of Bamadad DZ, to my knowledge (and as the self-appointed leader, I'm hoping I would know). It's really bad taste to try bringing other groups of people into a personal opinion. We don't know who Kaikey is but she doesn't speak for us.

Too funny. I imagined you at a podium with this intro.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by centaur532

Teh Cult

Is it really "Teh Cult"? I assumed that was a typo in the PM bamadad posted, and it should have been "the" instead of "Teh".

(Then again, I wasn't aware that such a thing existed in the first place...)

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by susan314

Is it really "Teh Cult"? I assumed that was a typo in the PM bamadad posted, and it should have been "the" instead of "Teh".

(Then again, I wasn't aware that such a thing existed in the first place...)

It's really "Teh."